Trading the Ladder for Ownership: What Mike DeJong Learned After Walking Away From the Corporate Promise

Trading the Ladder for Ownership: What Mike DeJong Learned After Walking Away From the Corporate Promise

Most professionals don’t leave their corporate roles over a single bad day. They leave when the math finally stops working — when years of loyalty, effort, and quiet ambition no longer line up with the rewards they were told to expect. Mike DeJong’s exit point was a single bonus decision that flattened performance into a uniform number across departments that had won and departments that had lost, and that one moment redirected his entire working life. From there, he made the slow, deliberate climb into franchise ownership without a consultant, without a roadmap, and against the well-meaning warnings of almost everyone who loved him. The conversation that follows is part confession, part operating manual, and part case study on what it actually takes to stop being the operator inside your own business and finally become the owner of it.

My special guest is Mike DeJong

Mike DeJong is a mechanical engineer turned multi-unit franchisee, author, and coach to operators who are tired of polished advice that doesn’t survive contact with the actual store floor. After more than a decade inside the corporate machine, he walked away on the back of a bonus decision that erased the very performance results he’d worked hard to produce. He then spent months researching dozens of franchise concepts on his own before joining Nothing Bundt Cakes, eventually building that single Wisconsin location into a five-store operation that now reaches into the Pacific Northwest. Today he runs the business as a digital nomad, having written his book Grow Smart, Not Fast from Australia and recorded podcast episodes from places like Galveston, Puerto Vallarta, and the Banff backcountry. His coaching clients span food, retail, and service categories, and his style is direct, unsentimental, and grounded in mistakes he has already paid for in real money and real time.

“When I tell myself I’m stressed, what I’m really telling myself is that I’m afraid. I just don’t yet know what comes next.”

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Recognize the moment the corporate ladder quietly stops paying out — long before most professionals are ready to admit it.
• Walk through the exact franchise-research approach Mike used on his own, including what he looked at, what he ignored, and the questions he wishes he’d asked sooner.
• Understand why your first location will charge the highest tuition in lessons learned — and how to absorb it without losing your nerve or your capital.
• Make the small but stubborn mind shift that moves an owner out of the daily grind of operating and into the work of actually owning.
• Decode the difference between “I’m stressed and busy” and “I’m afraid and stuck,” and use a simple daily discipline to keep moving anyway.

How Owners Actually Step Back From Their Own Business

The hardest part of franchise ownership isn’t opening the first location — it’s reaching the point where the business no longer needs the owner inside it. That transition lives in the quality of the systems written down, the caliber of the leaders hired, and the willingness to invest in real training instead of promoting by default. Mike’s growth didn’t accelerate when he opened his second store; it accelerated when he stopped trying to clone himself and started hiring people who could outperform him in their own lane. The result is a business that runs on documented processes rather than the owner’s daily energy — which is the only kind of franchise that’s genuinely worth scaling.

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

• Pick up Mike’s book Grow Smart, Not Fast — additional titles are with his editors and on the way.
• Revisit Napoleon Hill’s Think and Grow Rich and his lesser-known Outwitting the Devil for the deeper mindset work that real growth always demands.
• Apply Mike’s rule of three: any task with three or more steps, or one you find yourself doing more than three times, gets captured in writing (a one-page SOP or a quick Loom recording both qualify).
• Connect with Meg Schmitz and FranChoice to explore whether franchise ownership is the right next chapter for your own story.
• Listen to the Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz for real stories of self-employment and business ownership.
• Contact Meg Schmitz to schedule a free, no-obligation call for insights into entrepreneurship and franchise opportunities.
• Use the form on the Free Agent Podcast page if you’d like to be considered as a guest on the show.

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Click to Take the Leap into the full interview transcript of the Free Agent Podcast, Episode 8.16 with Meg Schmitz and her guest, Mike DeJong

 

Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz – Guest: Mike DeJong, Multi-Unit Franchise Owner, Business Coach & Author

Meg Schmitz:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to, or welcome back to, the Free Agent Podcast. My name is Meg Schmitz, you’re a lovely hostess. If you’ve been here before, you know that this conversation is all about taking control over your financial future. It’s tough when you’re a free agent, but a lot of us are. And so, we are telling inspiring stories from real people who took the leap into business ownership. Sometimes that means franchising as well. And… freedom, I think, is what we’re all looking for.

So these conversations don’t normally come to the surface in everyday conversation, but I want listeners to know what we free agents are experiencing in our own businesses and our own business journeys, because they’re navigational changes that happen, ups, downs, navigating the sneak attacks. and yet attempting to produce amazing outcomes. So my guest today is Mike DeJong, and Mike and I met just a couple of weeks ago, and you’re gonna love his story, because it’s real, and Mike, welcome to the show. My friend, the former corporate refugee. I guess you’re a current corporate refugee.

Mike DeJong:
Curt, yes, yes. Yes, thank you, Meg. So happy.

Meg Schmitz:
successfully exited. Tell… I loved, hearing about it and reading it in your book, so we’ll promote this again. At the end of the show. But talk about your corporate journey, and how it made you feel, and why it ultimately made you say, screw it, I’m outta here.

Mike DeJong:
Sure, well, I think, like all of us, well, maybe I should say most of us, we get into the corporate world thinking if we work harder, we work smarter, we work our way up the ladder, we’re gonna make more money, we’re gonna have more more time to ourselves, we’re gonna make a difference, and it’s just, we’re gonna keep doing that for 30, 40, 50 years, and then retire and live a happy life. And then we get into it, and we realize. it doesn’t work that way. And it starts with the subtle things, but in my case, there was all the subtle things that I’m sure all you and all of your listeners have gone through, but my tipping point was, one particular year. We live and die in bonuses. You know, everyone’s got a decent base wage, but we live and die on our bonuses, and the company didn’t do well. My area did well, a few other areas did well, but as a company, we didn’t do well. So, no bonuses. Stat. That’s the way it goes. the board got together and voted for bonuses. We said, everyone worked really hard, there was some things that weren’t their fault. We should… we should reward our people. Yay! Bonuses! Everyone’s very excited. Me especially, because, again, my area did really well.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And then they peanut butter smeared it. Everyone at a certain level got the exact same bonus, whether they won or lost. So you could have had the most losing area. And you get the same bonus as someone, and I was one example, there was a few of us, that did really well. And that was kind of the, that wasn’t kind of… that was absolutely the straw that broke the camel’s back. In that moment, I knew I had to go work for myself. I couldn’t work for another company. I had to figure this out on my own, and I started that journey in earnest. I’d always been looking a little bit, but in earnest to… to move out of the corporate world and start working for myself.

Meg Schmitz:
And so, did you start an entrepreneurial journey, or a frantrepreneurial journey?

Mike DeJong:
That’s a great question. I had the entrepreneurial journey going as side hustles up to that point.

Meg Schmitz:
Okay.

Mike DeJong:
None of them too profitable. A lot of them, huge time sucks. I think, like, again, like, many of us do. And then I realized maybe I need a little guidance, so I started a, as you called, I’ve never heard that term before, frantipreneurial journey? Yes, I started looking at different franchises. From the big dogs, we’ve all heard about, the Chick-fil-A’s, the McDonald’s, to the most obscure franchises out there. I… one doesn’t come to mind at this moment, because it was almost 10 years ago, but… There’s some interesting ones out there, and I… I read and looked and read and looked and messaged and went to meetings and talked to people and… Just nothing came about until… a fellow good friend. We call… I say he’s a friend to me. We are best friends, but fierce competitors. And he left to go open a franchise. And, it was a cake franchise, nothing but cakes.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And I’m like, oh my goodness, like… you’re insane. You’re gonna go bake cakes, you have a wife, and you have children. This is why you should never tell your friends and family what you’re doing, because out of love, they’re gonna tell you don’t do it.

Meg Schmitz:
Right.

Mike DeJong:
Dangerous, so you’re gonna fail, and that really gets into your head. But, I went and visited his franchise on the first day it opened, I tried the cake, because I’d never had a Nothing Bun Cakes before, they weren’t in Wisconsin at the time. I looked at him, I said, you are a genius, this is freaking amazing, it’s the best cake I ever tried. are you actually making any money at this? He opened his books, I’m like, oh my god, I gotta… this is the fran- this is the one. This is the franchise that I have to get involved with, and I started the process with nothing but cakes to… Become a franchisee, which was a path all on its own.

Meg Schmitz:
So you navigated that path? On your own, without a franchise consultant?

Mike DeJong:
I did, yeah. I didn’t even know what a franchise consultant was until after I was already a franchisee.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
Never even heard of them. I know, I know what they are now. But at that moment, I never heard of them.

Meg Schmitz:
We’re one of the best-kept secrets out there, trying to change that one podcast interview at a time. In doing the research on your own, and then, of course, you have your best friend who’s been transparent with you about his financial investment and success. Was there any… step along the way, looking back, that you think you missed asking certain questions that would have been… More enlightening before you made your decision?

Mike DeJong:
Hmm.

Meg Schmitz:
Or did you feel pretty confident when you made the decision? You peeled the layers back, and you… because some people… some people are really good at it, and some people are just, like, la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la, hear no evil, see no evil, yeah, I’m going to sign the dotted line, and then they find out.

Mike DeJong:
No, I had a 4 or 5 inch thick binder of research before I signed the dotted line, and that only took me a couple of months. To put together. And I… having already explored multiple franchises, I kind of… knew what to look for. Did I… did I ask every right question? Was I prepared for every eventuality before I started? Oh, heck no.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah. There’s something to be said about going in without every I dotted and T crossed, because even… even so, once you get in, something’s gonna go sideways. The economy is going to go sideways, your foot traffic isn’t going to be what you expected, your pricing isn’t going to be quite right, there’s something. So you can’t predict for everything.

Mike DeJong:
No, not at all. And that’s… that’s part of… not just franchising, but any business. You have to be ready for… what’s happening in reality. Not what you want to happen, not what you hope will happen, not even what you think will happen, what is actually happening for real, right in front of you.

Meg Schmitz:
And that’s part of your Grow Smart strategy. Tell me about some of the lessons that you learned back then that, like, wish I’d known that ahead of time. Wish I hadn’t done that one.

Mike DeJong:
Oh my goodness, where to start? Seriously, there are… there are dozens. We could talk for the rest of today about the lessons I learned back then. I think the biggest one that took me years to understand is, listen to my gut. I would… I would listen to what other people would tell me. This person is amazing at doing X, whether it’s marketing or, I’m… I’m just so excited to be here, Meg, my brain stopped working. Let’s just say with marketing, for example.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike DeJong:
This person is a marketing genius, you need to hire them, and you meet them, and talk with them, and work with them, and you’re like, yeah, I don’t… I’m not feeling it here, but everyone says this person’s amazing. All of my network says this person’s amazing, and you hire said person, and sure enough. They’re, they’re, they’re a dud. or processes. You hear from other business owners that this is the process to make money, this is the path you have to follow. If you do A, then B, then C, and you do it in this order, and you’re like, I think you’re missing a few steps in between there. But you follow the process, and then it… then it doesn’t work. I, if we go back to the marketing one.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
It was back when everyone said you had to do text message marketing. This is all the rave. It’s like 2017, 2018, you know. It wasn’t so regulated back then as it is now, and you just had to have these text message marketing, and it’s the way to go, and I’m like, that’s just gonna piss people off. you know, sure enough, signed up with the company and started the text message marketing, and it just pissed my customers off. They’re like, stop, stop bothering me! I don’t care about what you have going on right now. I just don’t want my text messages to be… to be blown up. My gut told me that, but my network said, do something else. That’s an early example. Or consultants, one more… one more. Consultants will come in and fix your business. There are a lot of amazing, really talented Coaches and consultants out there. And there’s even more people that suck.

Meg Schmitz:
Tell the difference between the two sooner.

Mike DeJong:
How to tell the difference between the two sooner? Yeah, ask more questions up front, do more research on results, talk to the people they’ve actually helped. Before you move forward. Again, not just going forward with what your network says. This person is amazing, they will transform your business. That person’s a great talker that moves from Chamber of Commerce, the Chamber of Commerce, or… or… BMI group to BMI group, etc, and gets a lot of money, and then doesn’t really perform, and then moves on to the next thing, and builds that new network where everyone thinks they’re… just because they’re personable doesn’t mean they’re good. That was an expensive one.

Meg Schmitz:
Yes, so this is all during your first Nothing Butt Cakes location?

Mike DeJong:
It is, yeah.

Meg Schmitz:
Expanded? Okay.

Mike DeJong:
The first one. Because, yeah, as I was growing, I wasn’t growing efficiently, so… I wasn’t looking at my right KPIs, key performance indicators. I wasn’t… I wasn’t tracking the right things.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And I thought, top line revenue equals bottom line growth, full stop. full speed ahead. If I bring more people in, I’m gonna make more money, and it just… for whatever reason, I know the reasons now, but at the time. I couldn’t fathom why it wasn’t helping, therefore the consultants, etc, until I finally figured out the formula.

Meg Schmitz:

And so, that’s the title of your book. It’s not Grow Fast, it’s Grow Smart. Right. And this is what a lot of us… and this is why I’m so glad that you’re here today, Mike, because I feel like everybody’s mother when I keep saying. Take the time with your first one to learn your lessons. Break it, rebuild it, break yourself.

And recalibrate your brain so that before you’re on to location 34510, where you’re still breaking shit. Do it on the first one.

Mike DeJong:
100%. We should scream that from the rafter, from the rooftops. We should just… Many people, myself included, said, well, I’m gonna… I need to make more money, I’m gonna grow, because then I’ll have two locations, and I’ll make double the money, and it’s gonna be amazing. And you end up making less money because you are… I was. And many of us are the… the cog in the wheel that kind of jams everything up. You know, we don’t have the systems, we don’t have the processes, we don’t look at the right thing, we’re still the go-to person, we are an operator in every sense of the word, even though we own the business. Even though I owned the business, I was operating the business. And no business owner is ready to grow Until they don’t need to be in the business. If that business runs. When they’re gone on vacation for weeks. And that business runs with, like, a couple of phone calls or meetings a month, or maybe a week, depending on how you set it up and what type of business it is. Then you’re ready to… then you’re ready to expand and grow. If you’re the one in there every day driving everything. You can’t multiply u. And you won’t grow. You’ll have a second location, you’ll just be 3 times as miserable, not even twice, maybe even 4 times as miserable.

Meg Schmitz:
Which, case in point, as I started to read your book, this is exactly what happened to you when you decided, I’m outta here, I’m out of Wisconsin, I want to go somewhere nice and warm, and you went, and… Briefly tell what happened. If you don’t mind.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, the first vacation I had in years, I finally found the right manager. And she was. She was amazing. She ran that place better than I did. I didn’t need to be there.

Meg Schmitz:
Oh my god.

Mike DeJong:
Finally! Oh my god, I could take a vacation. That last Wisconsin snowstorm comes, you know that one that happens that first week in February after you’ve had a week of 70? You have that week of 70 degrees, like, spring’s here, and then you get another snowstorm. You’re like, I can’t. No, I’m not, I’m not doing it. I’m not doing it. That happened on a Sunday. On Tuesday, I was on a plane to… to Mexico, landed in Cancun, was gonna drive over to a resort near Tulum. But as soon as the plane touched down, like every business owner, turned the phone back on. It blows up. it blows up from… with text messages. I’m like, well, this is not… Great, and then, the one text message and then voicemail that got my attention was from my managed link. Call me. It’s really important. And we had a discussion before I left. That was… she’s like, I’m not going to call you, even if the place is burning down, because there’s nothing you could do about it for Mexico. And I’m like, oh my god, did the place, like, burn to the ground then? Did someone die? Like…

Like, who…how bad is it? So I’m walking off the plane, because it’s… it’s one of those places right on the jet bridge, and there’s a band with the steel drums, and they’re playing Bob Marley. I know it’s a cliche, but that’s what they’re playing, you know, they’re catering to the tourists, and you can smell the ocean air, and I’m getting on the phone. And she’s like, yeah, I just want to let you know I’m quitting. But I’ll stay on until… You get back. Twist. and gutting, and moving around, I’m like. Tried to ask some questions why. She really didn’t care to talk about it. And, I said, okay, well, thank you for staying, I really appreciate that. And she says, you’re getting back, in a week, right? I said. I don’t know where you had that idea, it’s actually 2 weeks. She’s like, really? Like, yeah, this is the date. She goes, oh, I must have wrote it down wrong. And I went to the… got to the hotel, extended my reservation an extra week, because I knew that I wasn’t going to get another vacation for years, and there’s no point in rushing home, because she ran the place better than I did. And then I’m not proud to say I went to the bar and had a few too many. And then immediately spent those two weeks on the phone. And on my laptop, because even though she was there, she was checked out, and everyone started coming to me for everything again, and it was not a fantastic situation. At that moment, I realized I really need to change. A lot of things.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah. I won’t go into the details, because my listeners have heard my tale of woe. In the past, but it involved a manager and another employee. One was stealing out of the drawer, but this was 30 years ago, we didn’t have software back then. So one was stealing consistently out of the drawer, and the other one was stealing drugs out of the back room.

Mike DeJong:
Oh, wow.

Meg Schmitz:
So, from a culture standpoint, you had a culture disconnect, and so did I. So what did you do then when you got back? To fix it.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah. No, that’s when I realized that I had too much invested in one position and one job, and I also started to realize, after the second failure of that, I hired another manager, didn’t have the exact same problem, but also didn’t have great success, that I was tracking the wrong things. So I started really optimizing the processes and procedures in every specific job. Like a lot of franchises, there was, you know, roles are defined.

And this is what the people do, but they don’t get into the nitty-gritty.

They don’t get into the… Like, move this here, twist it this way, open this, like, all of the steps and processes. I actually pulled out something I hadn’t used in years, which was my process engineering cap. mechanical engineer back in the day, and started looking at all the steps that I was ignoring. for so long.

All of the little, little nuances, and I started getting people more efficient. And then I started actually spending a lot more time With those individual people. And not just like, here, you’re doing a great job, have some more money. But finding out what actually makes them Tick, and for a lot of them, it was more money. But for some of them, it was, I’d like to spend half a day at my local animal shelter volunteering. And if I could always have Thursday afternoons off, except for Christmas and Thanksgiving, I get it, you know, to go do that, I’d be, like. I’d be amazed, because I’ve never had that flexibility in my life before.

Or if I could have Every second weekend in, the summer. at least make it a 3-day weekend, because I have a cabin up north, and I’d always like to go to that cabin. Just little… little things, you know, I… I… you start finding out what makes people tick, and usually… it’s not often, maybe, and you start actually giving it to them, they become very loyal, and they actually are more open to change then, because we all hate change.

The only change we like is change that we know is coming. Right? I love surprises. No, you don’t. Nobody truly loves surprises. Maybe they love, like, a little, like, they didn’t know what they’re getting for their birthday, etc.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, I like to be delighted without warning, but delighted has to be in there, isn’t it?

Mike DeJong:
The delighted piece has to be in there, exactly right. So, they’re more interested in change if you’ve built that relationship with them. You can start doing all this process changing in engineering, and if they don’t follow it, writing SOPs, if it’s not… if they’re not done, then what’s the point? You have to bring people along. Also, you know, promoted a few people to customer during that time. Because they just weren’t good culture fits.

Meg Schmitz:
Yep.

Mike DeJong:
That one, squeaky… Noisy person can make all of the wonderful people hate their lives and not want to be there anymore. And then, was more rigorous. on the people I brought in to be potential managers, with the experience. I made the mistake, like a lot of us do in the past, it’s like, this person shows up every day, they know their job really well, you’re the manager! Well, that doesn’t mean they have any leadership skills. So, stop… I’m not saying I never promoted from within, but I would do it in Laird, and then I’d bring people along with leadership training. I enrolled them in various courses and trainings, I’d spend more time with them, talking about what I do. I’d assign reading, to try to get them into a leadership role so they weren’t just, like, dumped in. It’s like, okay, just because you’re good at your job now, you’re the leader. Or I would hire and spend the money for people who had been there and done that and were true leaders.

Meg Schmitz:
And that… this is where my Season 8 has evolved into a leadership discussion. A number of people who have preceded you in this podcast season are exceptional leaders. One is a retired Navy SEAL. Amazing.

Mike DeJong:
I’m sure they’re an excellent leader, yes.

Meg Schmitz:
He’s an excellent leader. Had a couple of other… others recently, men and women, talking about leadership. As you… as you think about your organization and the growth, then, you were able to achieve, were there a couple of leadership qualities In particular that you identified as being particularly helpful in that trajectory of growth?

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, communication was the biggest one.

Meg Schmitz:
Hmm.

Mike DeJong:
And, having the ability to hold people accountable. I’m a big believer that people should hold themselves accountable. But most people don’t. So… My businesses were, are mainly in retail. And retail employees are some hard-working individuals. Absolutely amazing. They make the world go round, really.

Meg Schmitz:
Absolutely.

Mike DeJong:
And are not appreciated. Hardly, hardly enough. But like all people, they have, you know, different needs and wants and desires, etc. But, I bring in a leader, or I would do this myself, it’s like… Okay, well, I have… Timmy that shows up every Tuesday. Timmy doesn’t do his job very well, and people really don’t like Timmy, but he shows up. So I got the lights on and the doors open, that’s a win. And my leaders, because they had Timmy, they’re doing the same thing, because they’ve learned from me. It’s like, we’ve got someone there, we’ll work with them, we’ll work around them. And now. And now Meg and Susie and Johnny and Billy hate their lives, because they see that Timmy’s not doing the job that Timmy’s supposed to be doing, but they are, they’re picking up his slack. et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and it just poisons your culture. So, if you could hold that person accountable in… in a loving way, it’s not like… Hey, you… So… They’re just matter-of-fact discussions. And I found having those matter-of-fact discussions, most people kind of self-select after a few weeks. Either get better, which is a win, I love that when that happens. And if it doesn’t happen, they self-select. They realize, like, maybe this isn’t the place for me, and they move on themselves.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And then I would always get nervous about having that hole. It’s like, okay, now everyone else has to fill that hole, so I’m gonna bring someone in. And it’s an old… it’s an old hassle, right? Hire slow, fire quickly, blah blah blah. But I just felt this, like, urgency. I gotta get someone in there, I gotta get someone in there, I gotta get someone in there. And I changed that, and I got my leaders to change that. Where it’s like, you communicate with the team, it’s like. we’re gonna find the right fit. This could happen in a day, this could take 2-3 months. Are you guys… what do you… what do you guys want me to do? You want me to find another Timmy, or you want me to find another you? And almost universally, they’ll, like, find another me, however, don’t take advantage of us, don’t do this forever. Absolutely. And you could just continue the conversation as you’re… as you’re looking for the person. And I also changed one one sentence in how I was looking for those people. I used to say, I can’t find good people, or I can’t find a person that will do X. I can’t find someone that markets as well as me. I can’t find someone that bakes as well as me, that frosts as well as me. And I changed it to, how can I find a person that’s better than me. And that mind shift? It’s changed my life.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, it changed you from operator to owner.

Mike DeJong:
It did. It did.

Meg Schmitz:
I was waiting for this moment to where, like, when did the light switch go on, and you shifted gears from operator to owner, and that’s…

Mike DeJong:
That was the… that was the moment. That and actually looking at my KPIs, not just bouncing through life, going, there’s money in the bank, yeah, I’m good. Oh, there’s no money in the bank, crap.

Meg Schmitz:
when… when I have made those shifts or had these conversations with people, one thing that I hear over and over again is, when you… When you create a void, And you have a team. The other dedicated team members are going to help figure out what that… what… what that… the shape of that void really is. Is it a Timmy void, or is it… what was it that he wasn’t doing? And some people, self-select, again, will pony up and say, I was waiting for him to… he drove me crazy that he was here. I can do it better than he could have. And they’re essentially raising their hand and saying, pick me.

Mike DeJong:
Yes.

Meg Schmitz:
It’s amazing how many people will actually step forward And say, what took you so long? I’m here to help.

Mike DeJong:
Yes. And then as a leader, you’re sitting here going, well, why didn’t you say something sooner?

Meg Schmitz:
That was my…

Mike DeJong:
And then if you think about that a little more, a society, they’ve been beat down for saying something sooner.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
You know, you put your hand up in class, you get the wrong answer, you’re shamed. You do something wrong at home, you’re punished. It’s… it’s just the culture they’ve always had versus the culture you’re trying to develop in your own business, so…

Meg Schmitz:
And they don’t want to be the tattletale and be ratted out later on as being… Being a… Someone who turns on the team, but… I had the same thing. my… when… when I had to fire that… Actually, I had her arrested. One of them was arrested, the other one I fired, but someone said to me, what took you so long? And I knew in that moment that they knew exactly what was going on. They were waiting for me to somehow self-discover this. And once I shifted my own point of view, just as you did. then the entire culture shifted into location 2, then 3, then 4, then 5 for me. How many did you get to, with Nothing Bundt Cakes before you decided to leave the market?

Mike DeJong:
I had 4 in Wisconsin, and as I was building the fourth, I actually bought an underperforming store near Seattle in Kirkland, Washington.

Meg Schmitz:
Crazy.

Mike DeJong:
just… yeah. It was, actually. But I’m like, I’m not really in the stores anyway. I could go spend a month there, and… show them the way, and and grow it. Did it grow as fast as I wanted? No, but we’ve consistently had 25% to 35% growth since I bought it, so…

Meg Schmitz:
Wow.

Mike DeJong:
It’s on the path. It’s on the path. Everyone… everyone did quit in the first two weeks. That was a challenge, but yes.

Meg Schmitz:
I had the same thing happen. Whole group walked out simultaneously on a Saturday morning. Yeah. But, but what you’re saying is what I want my people to hear and understand is the first one hurts. The first one is a full-time frickin’ job. And it’s going to teach you lessons that are painful, and you’re going to go, I’m smarter than that. I should have seen that coming, or why didn’t I open my eyes sooner? It was here right along.

Mike DeJong:
Beat yourself up over all the things.

Meg Schmitz:
And then location, it’s like having kids. 2 to 5 were so much easier.

Mike DeJong:
Period. Well, in my case, it was… it was 3 to 5, because I… I opened 2 too soon, I made all the mistakes.

Meg Schmitz:
Oh, okay.

Mike DeJong:
Where I’m like, okay, I got this, now I’m gonna make all this more money, it’s gonna be amazing, I’m gonna have all this extra people, so if one calls out here, I can send them from the other store. All the things we all tell ourselves that none of it’s true if we don’t have the processes and procedures, and… culture in place to do it, so I had to fix both of them before I could move and actually just put in some, letters of intent for some new real estate in the greater Washington, Seattle area, to open two more out there, so… We’ll see how that goes.

Meg Schmitz:
Got it, so you’re out of Wisconsin, in Washington, but you’re a digital nomad, right? You’re… you travel…

Mike DeJong:
I’m in Galveston, Texas, as I talk to you right now. Last week, I was in Puerto Vallarta. Unfortunately, it was during all of the, unrest. It was like watching CNN from my balcony, all the smoke, and they did blow up a bus right in front of our building, so it was, you know… Interesting. But, You know, I wrote, I wrote a book from Australia last year. Like, you just… wherever you are is where you could run your business if you have the systems and processes in place.

Meg Schmitz:
Right. Yes, you can, and that confidence. So, now you find yourself an accidental author. Maybe you’re an intentional author underneath.

Mike DeJong:
No, it was accidental. I got pushed into it by dear friends and loving colleagues who said I needed to write a book about everything I knew.

Meg Schmitz:
Everything you learned.

Mike DeJong:
Right. That’s a better way to put it, yes.

Meg Schmitz:
I… people ask me to do the same thing. I said, well, this is why I have a podcast. I don’t have to write a book that way. Oh, 230 episodes, and you’ll get the story of my life.

Mike DeJong:
It gets addictive after the first one.

Meg Schmitz:
My inner artist is a writer. That’s… it’s not a paintbrush, it’s not a crayon, it’s not… it’s… give me… give me the written word, is what I love to do. I don’t know that I have the patience to do it. How many… how many… more locations do you think you want to open, now that you’ve… you’ve figured it out? You’ve got a… you’ve got a comfort zone and a routine that is working for you. So, do you have a current growth trajectory that you’re looking for?

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, I’ll probably stop with… with those… with those two, unless an opportunity comes up to buy another underperforming… another underperforming sector. I’ve really been focusing my attention on, coaching, especially food-based franchise owners, although business is business. Business is innovation and marketing. people could say, my business is different. No, every business is innovation and marketing. I can’t remember who said that, but they were a genius. It’s a famous quote from someone whose name I can’t remember because, you know, I’m on a podcast, so why.

Meg Schmitz:
But it’s just become so true, because.

Mike DeJong:
I went into coaching and writing with the intention of helping franchisees who were in the food space. And I ended up helping almost everyone other than franchisees in the food space, and I found that their businesses are just the same as running a franchise food-based business. It’s… we all make the same assumptions. We go down the same paths, and the single greatest problem with our growth is… Right here, you point a finger at yourself. And just so much of it, which I didn’t want to believe when I started. this journey to… to growth was the mindset piece. It’s our own mental work. It’s our own understanding of how we get in the way, and how we help. We have a lot of, like, I have a lot of unique skills that I’m really good at. Peg, you have a lot of unique skills, or Meg, pardon me, that you’re really good at. Names are not one of my unique skills, just so we know. Everything… I can meet someone, and 10 years later, I’ll ask them about their daughter’s softball game, but I can’t remember their name. Like, that’s just the way my brain works.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, nope.

Mike DeJong:
But just helping them with that mindset piece, and just getting out of their own way. And once they get out of their own way, then it’s showing them how to build processes and procedures. you know, the… what I call it the rule of three, if you do… if it’s got three steps, or you’ve got to do it more than three times, you need to write it down. Or when I say write it down, you could do a loom, or you could do a lot of different ways to capture it, but…

Meg Schmitz:
Sure.

Mike DeJong:
And then the validation… this… all that stuff comes later, after they get out of their own way. And then that gets them to here. Then they plateau, and then you gotta get them to here, and then they plateau. And at every step, it’s… it’s usually them, and or the people they surround themselves with.

Meg Schmitz:
I, on December 31st, decided that for 2026, I was going to have not only a mentor, but a different… I don’t call it accountability group, but it’s… it’s a group of thought leaders.

Mike DeJong:
Mmm.

Meg Schmitz:
Who are in my space, Who share the same goals that… that… we all have the same goal. We’re looking for a seven-figure revenue year, and whether we’ve ever done it before, or done it, lost it, trying to get back to that. mindset. It is all… it is all about the very clear and intentional baby steps that lead to daily discipline, that then leads to longer-term success. So trying to eat a year, 2026, I’m gonna do blah blah blah, it’s much easier to get to a bigger goal if you have the discipline to take smaller goals. steps, steps.

Mike DeJong:
It’s all, what do you call it, eating the elephant, you know, one bite at a time?

Meg Schmitz:
Read my mind.

Mike DeJong:
99% of people don’t even take the first step. And why… why don’t people take the first step? Or if they’ve taken the first step, why don’t… and the 10th and the 15th, but they won’t take the 16th, why not?

Meg Schmitz:
Why not?

Mike DeJong:
I’m stressed and I’m busy. I’m stressed and I’m busy. I’m stressed and I’m busy. That’s the adult version of, I have fear. When I hear someone say, I’m stressed, when I tell myself, no, I’m stressed, I’m telling myself, I’m afraid. I don’t know what comes next. I’ve never done this before. If I find myself cleaning my desk instead of doing the task I’m supposed to be doing. If I find myself doing tasks I know how to do instead of this new scary task that I don’t know how to do. I’m telling myself I’m afraid instead of telling myself I’m stressed.

Meg Schmitz:
And the universe, the vibration in the universe, it picks up on that, and I don’t want to sound too… Off in the, off… out in the weeds, but… I do firmly believe that what… what we tell ourselves inside our heads is what radiates intentionally or not, what radiates.

Mike DeJong:
I 100% believe in that.

Meg Schmitz:
Okay.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, read anything by Napoleon Hill, I mean…

Meg Schmitz:
Yes!

Mike DeJong:
I just finished, oh, there I go with a bad name again. It’s along the lines of a conversation with the devil. Was it, was it? Everyone knows, They could grow rich. Everyone’s read that.

Meg Schmitz:
Hmm.

Mike DeJong:
But it was… it was… Mind-altering to read that version of his book. And then you were talking about being in a thought leader group of people that want to get to six figures. I’m gonna challenge you. I’m gonna… I’m gonna challenge you! You need to find a mentor, mentors that are not just… are at six figures, but are at… Or 7 figures. Not just at 7 figures, but are at 8 or 9 or 10. So they’re so far ahead that that little bit to get to 7 is like, oh, you do this and this and this, as opposed to figuring out Figuring it out together. And I was always looking, like, at the level or one above, and I’ve started looking several Several levels above, and then they’re not easy to find, and they don’t want to spend time with you, because you’re not at their level. But it’s not impossible, either.

Meg Schmitz:
That said, which is… a lot of people are secretive and possessive of said traits, and then others, I found, for me personally, I don’t need to name names, but just in the last couple of months, have found some really interesting people in my world of franchising. who are those 7- or eight-figure people, high 7, 8-figure people, who very freely, this is an abundance mentality, put it right out there on YouTube and LinkedIn. Yeah. they have weekly, daily newsletters that you can opt in or out of, and I just shifted. One of my goals, Mike, was I wanted 5 new referrals every week. I just put it out there. On Monday morning, first thing, 8.30 when I get to the office. This week, I want 5 new referrals. I shifted that last week to, every day, I want to meet someone new. via LinkedIn, I’m going to… I’m going to… see what’s in my feed, in my notifications. I’m gonna find interesting people I don’t know yet, and ask them if they’d be interested in meeting with me. All for the sake of me building my referral network, because that’s. the only people I work with are people who want to own a franchise someday, but I only want to work with referrals. qualified people. So… Sure. That’s my new goal, is not asking for the elephant at the beginning of the week. But every day, taking a step towards… that outcome that I want, it makes it so much more manageable. Because for me, a stranger is a friend I haven’t met yet, so bring it on! One new person a day? How exciting is that for me?

Mike DeJong:
Right, and if you take that logically a step further, how can I help that person? Even if they never come back to become a referral for you, but how can you help them with something?

Meg Schmitz:
And that’s it. I used to sell Mary Kay cosmetics, the whole go-give mentality, this is not about me, it’s not what’s in it for me, it’s in meeting you. And you said it before, one of the top leadership skills is communication.

Mike DeJong:
Yes.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, communication is not a one-way street. It’s not someone talking all the time, it’s listening.

Mike DeJong:
Yes.

Meg Schmitz:
I can’t remember who I was talking to recently who said she leaned in and said… oh, I do know. Her strongest assessment tool is her ability to listen. She doesn’t use Myers-Briggs, she doesn’t use… not to begin with. But she asks questions, and then she leaves.

Mike DeJong:
No discs, no Myers-Briggs, just listens. Actively listens. That’s a rare skill.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, hopefully it’ll get to be more common after people listen to this podcast. But I think that’s what you’re getting at, too, with the leaders that you put in place, then. we’re not just managers or shift leaders who said, do it this way, this is… but you… you took the leadership role to say, I’m going to build a culture based on my understanding of each one of my team members who’s important enough to keep them. I’m going to listen to what they need.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah.

Meg Schmitz:
And to your point, it rarely is money first. It’s usually something that will, particularly now, give them greater engagement, that gives them Contentment outside of work.

Mike DeJong:
Absolutely correct. We all need money. We need a roof over our heads, food in our bellies. Some fun things to do now and then.

Meg Schmitz:
Nope.

Mike DeJong:
Or as my brother says, my brother’s in the homelessness space, and he says, every human being needs somewhere to live. Someone to love, and something to do.

Meg Schmitz:
Yes. And on that, alright, so… this book. not grow fast, but grow smart. What… if people wanted to find you for leadership advice, do you have a pod… do you have a, newsletter or training program? Is there something online that we can help to promote for you?

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, they could go to MikeDejong.com.

Meg Schmitz:
Okay. And sign up.

Mike DeJong:
I’ll get them into my newsletter that I… that was my goal for 2026, was to start a newsletter by the second quarter, so we’re coming up on that. Put what’s in here on paper. So you’ll be the first ones to, you know, assuming everyone’s watching this in early March of 2026, as soon as it comes out. Be one of the first ones to get into that newsletter. I also offer just free calls with people for an hour, where I will figure out what’s going on in your life and help you, with no sales. I just want to help people. And I love doing that. That’s where I get my jam.

Meg Schmitz:
And I totally appreciate that. I’m gonna be 63 in a couple of weeks. And there’s something about getting older and having hindsight, as well as wisdom and experience to share.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah.

Meg Schmitz:
it’s not all about the money, it’s… it is… but for me, and this is why I invited you to that networking meeting, is we’re all stronger together. We’re all in the same soup. We’re all living… living the dream. To some extent. And so, to create a safe space and a… a non-competitive.

Mike DeJong:
I’m totally industry agnostic. I don’t care how many people there are in hair care, how many people in food. We all have experience.

Meg Schmitz:
To help someone who’s there to say. I need this door opened. I need this problem solved. Has anyone seen this before? Bingo!

Mike DeJong:
And that cross-industry really helps, because people in industry tend to get focused in this narrow little band.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, great. So, we will be promoting this episode, and we’ll be promoting your book, the one that I’ve got. You’ve got more coming… I know that you’re able to write from Australia.

Mike DeJong:
They are, they are with the editors as we speak.

Meg Schmitz:
Good for you. Well, thank you, Mike, for joining me today, and this has been lovely. I’m thankful for your time and your expertise and willingness to share as a former Wisconsinite, now a nomad. Where are you going next, after Galveston?

Mike DeJong:
I was gonna spend some time up in the Rocky Mountains, up in the Banff area.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And then worked my way down south into… into… Probably as far as Colorado, and then after that, I’m actually not sure.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, proof positive, everybody, that as a business owner, once you move out of the operator role, you can run your business, literally.

Mike DeJong:
From anywhere. From anywhere.

Meg Schmitz:
Thank you, Mike, for joining me today. It’s been a true pleasure, and I’ll let you know when this episode is going to launch.

Mike DeJong:
Thanks, Meg. And I want to leave you with one quote that really hits hard with me, and leave your viewers with this. and this isn’t mine, this is from Jay Morrison, another U.S. Navy SEAL. Recently retired. And he says, everyone says they want something. But they want nothing more.

Meg Schmitz:
Oh…

Mike DeJong:
Thanks for the time today.

Meg Schmitz:
That’s a sneaky one. Thank you, Mike.

Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz – Guest: Mike DeJong, Multi-Unit Franchise Owner, Business Coach & Author

Meg Schmitz:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to, or welcome back to, the Free Agent Podcast. My name is Meg Schmitz, you’re a lovely hostess. If you’ve been here before, you know that this conversation is all about taking control over your financial future. It’s tough when you’re a free agent, but a lot of us are. And so, we are telling inspiring stories from real people who took the leap into business ownership. Sometimes that means franchising as well. And… freedom, I think, is what we’re all looking for.

So these conversations don’t normally come to the surface in everyday conversation, but I want listeners to know what we free agents are experiencing in our own businesses and our own business journeys, because they’re navigational changes that happen, ups, downs, navigating the sneak attacks. and yet attempting to produce amazing outcomes. So my guest today is Mike DeJong, and Mike and I met just a couple of weeks ago, and you’re gonna love his story, because it’s real, and Mike, welcome to the show. My friend, the former corporate refugee. I guess you’re a current corporate refugee.

Mike DeJong:
Curt, yes, yes. Yes, thank you, Meg. So happy.

Meg Schmitz:
successfully exited. Tell… I loved, hearing about it and reading it in your book, so we’ll promote this again. At the end of the show. But talk about your corporate journey, and how it made you feel, and why it ultimately made you say, screw it, I’m outta here.

Mike DeJong:
Sure, well, I think, like all of us, well, maybe I should say most of us, we get into the corporate world thinking if we work harder, we work smarter, we work our way up the ladder, we’re gonna make more money, we’re gonna have more more time to ourselves, we’re gonna make a difference, and it’s just, we’re gonna keep doing that for 30, 40, 50 years, and then retire and live a happy life. And then we get into it, and we realize. it doesn’t work that way. And it starts with the subtle things, but in my case, there was all the subtle things that I’m sure all you and all of your listeners have gone through, but my tipping point was, one particular year. We live and die in bonuses. You know, everyone’s got a decent base wage, but we live and die on our bonuses, and the company didn’t do well. My area did well, a few other areas did well, but as a company, we didn’t do well. So, no bonuses. Stat. That’s the way it goes. the board got together and voted for bonuses. We said, everyone worked really hard, there was some things that weren’t their fault. We should… we should reward our people. Yay! Bonuses! Everyone’s very excited. Me especially, because, again, my area did really well.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And then they peanut butter smeared it. Everyone at a certain level got the exact same bonus, whether they won or lost. So you could have had the most losing area. And you get the same bonus as someone, and I was one example, there was a few of us, that did really well. And that was kind of the, that wasn’t kind of… that was absolutely the straw that broke the camel’s back. In that moment, I knew I had to go work for myself. I couldn’t work for another company. I had to figure this out on my own, and I started that journey in earnest. I’d always been looking a little bit, but in earnest to… to move out of the corporate world and start working for myself.

Meg Schmitz:
And so, did you start an entrepreneurial journey, or a frantrepreneurial journey?

Mike DeJong:
That’s a great question. I had the entrepreneurial journey going as side hustles up to that point.

Meg Schmitz:
Okay.

Mike DeJong:
None of them too profitable. A lot of them, huge time sucks. I think, like, again, like, many of us do. And then I realized maybe I need a little guidance, so I started a, as you called, I’ve never heard that term before, frantipreneurial journey? Yes, I started looking at different franchises. From the big dogs, we’ve all heard about, the Chick-fil-A’s, the McDonald’s, to the most obscure franchises out there. I… one doesn’t come to mind at this moment, because it was almost 10 years ago, but… There’s some interesting ones out there, and I… I read and looked and read and looked and messaged and went to meetings and talked to people and… Just nothing came about until… a fellow good friend. We call… I say he’s a friend to me. We are best friends, but fierce competitors. And he left to go open a franchise. And, it was a cake franchise, nothing but cakes.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And I’m like, oh my goodness, like… you’re insane. You’re gonna go bake cakes, you have a wife, and you have children. This is why you should never tell your friends and family what you’re doing, because out of love, they’re gonna tell you don’t do it.

Meg Schmitz:
Right.

Mike DeJong:
Dangerous, so you’re gonna fail, and that really gets into your head. But, I went and visited his franchise on the first day it opened, I tried the cake, because I’d never had a Nothing Bun Cakes before, they weren’t in Wisconsin at the time. I looked at him, I said, you are a genius, this is freaking amazing, it’s the best cake I ever tried. are you actually making any money at this? He opened his books, I’m like, oh my god, I gotta… this is the fran- this is the one. This is the franchise that I have to get involved with, and I started the process with nothing but cakes to… Become a franchisee, which was a path all on its own.

Meg Schmitz:
So you navigated that path? On your own, without a franchise consultant?

Mike DeJong:
I did, yeah. I didn’t even know what a franchise consultant was until after I was already a franchisee.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
Never even heard of them. I know, I know what they are now. But at that moment, I never heard of them.

Meg Schmitz:
We’re one of the best-kept secrets out there, trying to change that one podcast interview at a time. In doing the research on your own, and then, of course, you have your best friend who’s been transparent with you about his financial investment and success. Was there any… step along the way, looking back, that you think you missed asking certain questions that would have been… More enlightening before you made your decision?

Mike DeJong:
Hmm.

Meg Schmitz:
Or did you feel pretty confident when you made the decision? You peeled the layers back, and you… because some people… some people are really good at it, and some people are just, like, la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la, hear no evil, see no evil, yeah, I’m going to sign the dotted line, and then they find out.

Mike DeJong:
No, I had a 4 or 5 inch thick binder of research before I signed the dotted line, and that only took me a couple of months. To put together. And I… having already explored multiple franchises, I kind of… knew what to look for. Did I… did I ask every right question? Was I prepared for every eventuality before I started? Oh, heck no.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah. There’s something to be said about going in without every I dotted and T crossed, because even… even so, once you get in, something’s gonna go sideways. The economy is going to go sideways, your foot traffic isn’t going to be what you expected, your pricing isn’t going to be quite right, there’s something. So you can’t predict for everything.

Mike DeJong:
No, not at all. And that’s… that’s part of… not just franchising, but any business. You have to be ready for… what’s happening in reality. Not what you want to happen, not what you hope will happen, not even what you think will happen, what is actually happening for real, right in front of you.

Meg Schmitz:
And that’s part of your Grow Smart strategy. Tell me about some of the lessons that you learned back then that, like, wish I’d known that ahead of time. Wish I hadn’t done that one.

Mike DeJong:
Oh my goodness, where to start? Seriously, there are… there are dozens. We could talk for the rest of today about the lessons I learned back then. I think the biggest one that took me years to understand is, listen to my gut. I would… I would listen to what other people would tell me. This person is amazing at doing X, whether it’s marketing or, I’m… I’m just so excited to be here, Meg, my brain stopped working. Let’s just say with marketing, for example.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike DeJong:
This person is a marketing genius, you need to hire them, and you meet them, and talk with them, and work with them, and you’re like, yeah, I don’t… I’m not feeling it here, but everyone says this person’s amazing. All of my network says this person’s amazing, and you hire said person, and sure enough. They’re, they’re, they’re a dud. or processes. You hear from other business owners that this is the process to make money, this is the path you have to follow. If you do A, then B, then C, and you do it in this order, and you’re like, I think you’re missing a few steps in between there. But you follow the process, and then it… then it doesn’t work. I, if we go back to the marketing one.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
It was back when everyone said you had to do text message marketing. This is all the rave. It’s like 2017, 2018, you know. It wasn’t so regulated back then as it is now, and you just had to have these text message marketing, and it’s the way to go, and I’m like, that’s just gonna piss people off. you know, sure enough, signed up with the company and started the text message marketing, and it just pissed my customers off. They’re like, stop, stop bothering me! I don’t care about what you have going on right now. I just don’t want my text messages to be… to be blown up. My gut told me that, but my network said, do something else. That’s an early example. Or consultants, one more… one more. Consultants will come in and fix your business. There are a lot of amazing, really talented Coaches and consultants out there. And there’s even more people that suck.

Meg Schmitz:
Tell the difference between the two sooner.

Mike DeJong:
How to tell the difference between the two sooner? Yeah, ask more questions up front, do more research on results, talk to the people they’ve actually helped. Before you move forward. Again, not just going forward with what your network says. This person is amazing, they will transform your business. That person’s a great talker that moves from Chamber of Commerce, the Chamber of Commerce, or… or… BMI group to BMI group, etc, and gets a lot of money, and then doesn’t really perform, and then moves on to the next thing, and builds that new network where everyone thinks they’re… just because they’re personable doesn’t mean they’re good. That was an expensive one.

Meg Schmitz:
Yes, so this is all during your first Nothing Butt Cakes location?

Mike DeJong:
It is, yeah.

Meg Schmitz:
Expanded? Okay.

Mike DeJong:
The first one. Because, yeah, as I was growing, I wasn’t growing efficiently, so… I wasn’t looking at my right KPIs, key performance indicators. I wasn’t… I wasn’t tracking the right things.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And I thought, top line revenue equals bottom line growth, full stop. full speed ahead. If I bring more people in, I’m gonna make more money, and it just… for whatever reason, I know the reasons now, but at the time. I couldn’t fathom why it wasn’t helping, therefore the consultants, etc, until I finally figured out the formula.

Meg Schmitz:

And so, that’s the title of your book. It’s not Grow Fast, it’s Grow Smart. Right. And this is what a lot of us… and this is why I’m so glad that you’re here today, Mike, because I feel like everybody’s mother when I keep saying. Take the time with your first one to learn your lessons. Break it, rebuild it, break yourself.

And recalibrate your brain so that before you’re on to location 34510, where you’re still breaking shit. Do it on the first one.

Mike DeJong:
100%. We should scream that from the rafter, from the rooftops. We should just… Many people, myself included, said, well, I’m gonna… I need to make more money, I’m gonna grow, because then I’ll have two locations, and I’ll make double the money, and it’s gonna be amazing. And you end up making less money because you are… I was. And many of us are the… the cog in the wheel that kind of jams everything up. You know, we don’t have the systems, we don’t have the processes, we don’t look at the right thing, we’re still the go-to person, we are an operator in every sense of the word, even though we own the business. Even though I owned the business, I was operating the business. And no business owner is ready to grow Until they don’t need to be in the business. If that business runs. When they’re gone on vacation for weeks. And that business runs with, like, a couple of phone calls or meetings a month, or maybe a week, depending on how you set it up and what type of business it is. Then you’re ready to… then you’re ready to expand and grow. If you’re the one in there every day driving everything. You can’t multiply u. And you won’t grow. You’ll have a second location, you’ll just be 3 times as miserable, not even twice, maybe even 4 times as miserable.

Meg Schmitz:
Which, case in point, as I started to read your book, this is exactly what happened to you when you decided, I’m outta here, I’m out of Wisconsin, I want to go somewhere nice and warm, and you went, and… Briefly tell what happened. If you don’t mind.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, the first vacation I had in years, I finally found the right manager. And she was. She was amazing. She ran that place better than I did. I didn’t need to be there.

Meg Schmitz:
Oh my god.

Mike DeJong:
Finally! Oh my god, I could take a vacation. That last Wisconsin snowstorm comes, you know that one that happens that first week in February after you’ve had a week of 70? You have that week of 70 degrees, like, spring’s here, and then you get another snowstorm. You’re like, I can’t. No, I’m not, I’m not doing it. I’m not doing it. That happened on a Sunday. On Tuesday, I was on a plane to… to Mexico, landed in Cancun, was gonna drive over to a resort near Tulum. But as soon as the plane touched down, like every business owner, turned the phone back on. It blows up. it blows up from… with text messages. I’m like, well, this is not… Great, and then, the one text message and then voicemail that got my attention was from my managed link. Call me. It’s really important. And we had a discussion before I left. That was… she’s like, I’m not going to call you, even if the place is burning down, because there’s nothing you could do about it for Mexico. And I’m like, oh my god, did the place, like, burn to the ground then? Did someone die? Like…

Like, who…how bad is it? So I’m walking off the plane, because it’s… it’s one of those places right on the jet bridge, and there’s a band with the steel drums, and they’re playing Bob Marley. I know it’s a cliche, but that’s what they’re playing, you know, they’re catering to the tourists, and you can smell the ocean air, and I’m getting on the phone. And she’s like, yeah, I just want to let you know I’m quitting. But I’ll stay on until… You get back. Twist. and gutting, and moving around, I’m like. Tried to ask some questions why. She really didn’t care to talk about it. And, I said, okay, well, thank you for staying, I really appreciate that. And she says, you’re getting back, in a week, right? I said. I don’t know where you had that idea, it’s actually 2 weeks. She’s like, really? Like, yeah, this is the date. She goes, oh, I must have wrote it down wrong. And I went to the… got to the hotel, extended my reservation an extra week, because I knew that I wasn’t going to get another vacation for years, and there’s no point in rushing home, because she ran the place better than I did. And then I’m not proud to say I went to the bar and had a few too many. And then immediately spent those two weeks on the phone. And on my laptop, because even though she was there, she was checked out, and everyone started coming to me for everything again, and it was not a fantastic situation. At that moment, I realized I really need to change. A lot of things.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah. I won’t go into the details, because my listeners have heard my tale of woe. In the past, but it involved a manager and another employee. One was stealing out of the drawer, but this was 30 years ago, we didn’t have software back then. So one was stealing consistently out of the drawer, and the other one was stealing drugs out of the back room.

Mike DeJong:
Oh, wow.

Meg Schmitz:
So, from a culture standpoint, you had a culture disconnect, and so did I. So what did you do then when you got back? To fix it.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah. No, that’s when I realized that I had too much invested in one position and one job, and I also started to realize, after the second failure of that, I hired another manager, didn’t have the exact same problem, but also didn’t have great success, that I was tracking the wrong things. So I started really optimizing the processes and procedures in every specific job. Like a lot of franchises, there was, you know, roles are defined.

And this is what the people do, but they don’t get into the nitty-gritty.

They don’t get into the… Like, move this here, twist it this way, open this, like, all of the steps and processes. I actually pulled out something I hadn’t used in years, which was my process engineering cap. mechanical engineer back in the day, and started looking at all the steps that I was ignoring. for so long.

All of the little, little nuances, and I started getting people more efficient. And then I started actually spending a lot more time With those individual people. And not just like, here, you’re doing a great job, have some more money. But finding out what actually makes them Tick, and for a lot of them, it was more money. But for some of them, it was, I’d like to spend half a day at my local animal shelter volunteering. And if I could always have Thursday afternoons off, except for Christmas and Thanksgiving, I get it, you know, to go do that, I’d be, like. I’d be amazed, because I’ve never had that flexibility in my life before.

Or if I could have Every second weekend in, the summer. at least make it a 3-day weekend, because I have a cabin up north, and I’d always like to go to that cabin. Just little… little things, you know, I… I… you start finding out what makes people tick, and usually… it’s not often, maybe, and you start actually giving it to them, they become very loyal, and they actually are more open to change then, because we all hate change.

The only change we like is change that we know is coming. Right? I love surprises. No, you don’t. Nobody truly loves surprises. Maybe they love, like, a little, like, they didn’t know what they’re getting for their birthday, etc.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, I like to be delighted without warning, but delighted has to be in there, isn’t it?

Mike DeJong:
The delighted piece has to be in there, exactly right. So, they’re more interested in change if you’ve built that relationship with them. You can start doing all this process changing in engineering, and if they don’t follow it, writing SOPs, if it’s not… if they’re not done, then what’s the point? You have to bring people along. Also, you know, promoted a few people to customer during that time. Because they just weren’t good culture fits.

Meg Schmitz:
Yep.

Mike DeJong:
That one, squeaky… Noisy person can make all of the wonderful people hate their lives and not want to be there anymore. And then, was more rigorous. on the people I brought in to be potential managers, with the experience. I made the mistake, like a lot of us do in the past, it’s like, this person shows up every day, they know their job really well, you’re the manager! Well, that doesn’t mean they have any leadership skills. So, stop… I’m not saying I never promoted from within, but I would do it in Laird, and then I’d bring people along with leadership training. I enrolled them in various courses and trainings, I’d spend more time with them, talking about what I do. I’d assign reading, to try to get them into a leadership role so they weren’t just, like, dumped in. It’s like, okay, just because you’re good at your job now, you’re the leader. Or I would hire and spend the money for people who had been there and done that and were true leaders.

Meg Schmitz:
And that… this is where my Season 8 has evolved into a leadership discussion. A number of people who have preceded you in this podcast season are exceptional leaders. One is a retired Navy SEAL. Amazing.

Mike DeJong:
I’m sure they’re an excellent leader, yes.

Meg Schmitz:
He’s an excellent leader. Had a couple of other… others recently, men and women, talking about leadership. As you… as you think about your organization and the growth, then, you were able to achieve, were there a couple of leadership qualities In particular that you identified as being particularly helpful in that trajectory of growth?

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, communication was the biggest one.

Meg Schmitz:
Hmm.

Mike DeJong:
And, having the ability to hold people accountable. I’m a big believer that people should hold themselves accountable. But most people don’t. So… My businesses were, are mainly in retail. And retail employees are some hard-working individuals. Absolutely amazing. They make the world go round, really.

Meg Schmitz:
Absolutely.

Mike DeJong:
And are not appreciated. Hardly, hardly enough. But like all people, they have, you know, different needs and wants and desires, etc. But, I bring in a leader, or I would do this myself, it’s like… Okay, well, I have… Timmy that shows up every Tuesday. Timmy doesn’t do his job very well, and people really don’t like Timmy, but he shows up. So I got the lights on and the doors open, that’s a win. And my leaders, because they had Timmy, they’re doing the same thing, because they’ve learned from me. It’s like, we’ve got someone there, we’ll work with them, we’ll work around them. And now. And now Meg and Susie and Johnny and Billy hate their lives, because they see that Timmy’s not doing the job that Timmy’s supposed to be doing, but they are, they’re picking up his slack. et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and it just poisons your culture. So, if you could hold that person accountable in… in a loving way, it’s not like… Hey, you… So… They’re just matter-of-fact discussions. And I found having those matter-of-fact discussions, most people kind of self-select after a few weeks. Either get better, which is a win, I love that when that happens. And if it doesn’t happen, they self-select. They realize, like, maybe this isn’t the place for me, and they move on themselves.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And then I would always get nervous about having that hole. It’s like, okay, now everyone else has to fill that hole, so I’m gonna bring someone in. And it’s an old… it’s an old hassle, right? Hire slow, fire quickly, blah blah blah. But I just felt this, like, urgency. I gotta get someone in there, I gotta get someone in there, I gotta get someone in there. And I changed that, and I got my leaders to change that. Where it’s like, you communicate with the team, it’s like. we’re gonna find the right fit. This could happen in a day, this could take 2-3 months. Are you guys… what do you… what do you guys want me to do? You want me to find another Timmy, or you want me to find another you? And almost universally, they’ll, like, find another me, however, don’t take advantage of us, don’t do this forever. Absolutely. And you could just continue the conversation as you’re… as you’re looking for the person. And I also changed one one sentence in how I was looking for those people. I used to say, I can’t find good people, or I can’t find a person that will do X. I can’t find someone that markets as well as me. I can’t find someone that bakes as well as me, that frosts as well as me. And I changed it to, how can I find a person that’s better than me. And that mind shift? It’s changed my life.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, it changed you from operator to owner.

Mike DeJong:
It did. It did.

Meg Schmitz:
I was waiting for this moment to where, like, when did the light switch go on, and you shifted gears from operator to owner, and that’s…

Mike DeJong:
That was the… that was the moment. That and actually looking at my KPIs, not just bouncing through life, going, there’s money in the bank, yeah, I’m good. Oh, there’s no money in the bank, crap.

Meg Schmitz:
when… when I have made those shifts or had these conversations with people, one thing that I hear over and over again is, when you… When you create a void, And you have a team. The other dedicated team members are going to help figure out what that… what… what that… the shape of that void really is. Is it a Timmy void, or is it… what was it that he wasn’t doing? And some people, self-select, again, will pony up and say, I was waiting for him to… he drove me crazy that he was here. I can do it better than he could have. And they’re essentially raising their hand and saying, pick me.

Mike DeJong:
Yes.

Meg Schmitz:
It’s amazing how many people will actually step forward And say, what took you so long? I’m here to help.

Mike DeJong:
Yes. And then as a leader, you’re sitting here going, well, why didn’t you say something sooner?

Meg Schmitz:
That was my…

Mike DeJong:
And then if you think about that a little more, a society, they’ve been beat down for saying something sooner.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
You know, you put your hand up in class, you get the wrong answer, you’re shamed. You do something wrong at home, you’re punished. It’s… it’s just the culture they’ve always had versus the culture you’re trying to develop in your own business, so…

Meg Schmitz:
And they don’t want to be the tattletale and be ratted out later on as being… Being a… Someone who turns on the team, but… I had the same thing. my… when… when I had to fire that… Actually, I had her arrested. One of them was arrested, the other one I fired, but someone said to me, what took you so long? And I knew in that moment that they knew exactly what was going on. They were waiting for me to somehow self-discover this. And once I shifted my own point of view, just as you did. then the entire culture shifted into location 2, then 3, then 4, then 5 for me. How many did you get to, with Nothing Bundt Cakes before you decided to leave the market?

Mike DeJong:
I had 4 in Wisconsin, and as I was building the fourth, I actually bought an underperforming store near Seattle in Kirkland, Washington.

Meg Schmitz:
Crazy.

Mike DeJong:
just… yeah. It was, actually. But I’m like, I’m not really in the stores anyway. I could go spend a month there, and… show them the way, and and grow it. Did it grow as fast as I wanted? No, but we’ve consistently had 25% to 35% growth since I bought it, so…

Meg Schmitz:
Wow.

Mike DeJong:
It’s on the path. It’s on the path. Everyone… everyone did quit in the first two weeks. That was a challenge, but yes.

Meg Schmitz:
I had the same thing happen. Whole group walked out simultaneously on a Saturday morning. Yeah. But, but what you’re saying is what I want my people to hear and understand is the first one hurts. The first one is a full-time frickin’ job. And it’s going to teach you lessons that are painful, and you’re going to go, I’m smarter than that. I should have seen that coming, or why didn’t I open my eyes sooner? It was here right along.

Mike DeJong:
Beat yourself up over all the things.

Meg Schmitz:
And then location, it’s like having kids. 2 to 5 were so much easier.

Mike DeJong:
Period. Well, in my case, it was… it was 3 to 5, because I… I opened 2 too soon, I made all the mistakes.

Meg Schmitz:
Oh, okay.

Mike DeJong:
Where I’m like, okay, I got this, now I’m gonna make all this more money, it’s gonna be amazing, I’m gonna have all this extra people, so if one calls out here, I can send them from the other store. All the things we all tell ourselves that none of it’s true if we don’t have the processes and procedures, and… culture in place to do it, so I had to fix both of them before I could move and actually just put in some, letters of intent for some new real estate in the greater Washington, Seattle area, to open two more out there, so… We’ll see how that goes.

Meg Schmitz:
Got it, so you’re out of Wisconsin, in Washington, but you’re a digital nomad, right? You’re… you travel…

Mike DeJong:
I’m in Galveston, Texas, as I talk to you right now. Last week, I was in Puerto Vallarta. Unfortunately, it was during all of the, unrest. It was like watching CNN from my balcony, all the smoke, and they did blow up a bus right in front of our building, so it was, you know… Interesting. But, You know, I wrote, I wrote a book from Australia last year. Like, you just… wherever you are is where you could run your business if you have the systems and processes in place.

Meg Schmitz:
Right. Yes, you can, and that confidence. So, now you find yourself an accidental author. Maybe you’re an intentional author underneath.

Mike DeJong:
No, it was accidental. I got pushed into it by dear friends and loving colleagues who said I needed to write a book about everything I knew.

Meg Schmitz:
Everything you learned.

Mike DeJong:
Right. That’s a better way to put it, yes.

Meg Schmitz:
I… people ask me to do the same thing. I said, well, this is why I have a podcast. I don’t have to write a book that way. Oh, 230 episodes, and you’ll get the story of my life.

Mike DeJong:
It gets addictive after the first one.

Meg Schmitz:
My inner artist is a writer. That’s… it’s not a paintbrush, it’s not a crayon, it’s not… it’s… give me… give me the written word, is what I love to do. I don’t know that I have the patience to do it. How many… how many… more locations do you think you want to open, now that you’ve… you’ve figured it out? You’ve got a… you’ve got a comfort zone and a routine that is working for you. So, do you have a current growth trajectory that you’re looking for?

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, I’ll probably stop with… with those… with those two, unless an opportunity comes up to buy another underperforming… another underperforming sector. I’ve really been focusing my attention on, coaching, especially food-based franchise owners, although business is business. Business is innovation and marketing. people could say, my business is different. No, every business is innovation and marketing. I can’t remember who said that, but they were a genius. It’s a famous quote from someone whose name I can’t remember because, you know, I’m on a podcast, so why.

Meg Schmitz:
But it’s just become so true, because.

Mike DeJong:
I went into coaching and writing with the intention of helping franchisees who were in the food space. And I ended up helping almost everyone other than franchisees in the food space, and I found that their businesses are just the same as running a franchise food-based business. It’s… we all make the same assumptions. We go down the same paths, and the single greatest problem with our growth is… Right here, you point a finger at yourself. And just so much of it, which I didn’t want to believe when I started. this journey to… to growth was the mindset piece. It’s our own mental work. It’s our own understanding of how we get in the way, and how we help. We have a lot of, like, I have a lot of unique skills that I’m really good at. Peg, you have a lot of unique skills, or Meg, pardon me, that you’re really good at. Names are not one of my unique skills, just so we know. Everything… I can meet someone, and 10 years later, I’ll ask them about their daughter’s softball game, but I can’t remember their name. Like, that’s just the way my brain works.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah, nope.

Mike DeJong:
But just helping them with that mindset piece, and just getting out of their own way. And once they get out of their own way, then it’s showing them how to build processes and procedures. you know, the… what I call it the rule of three, if you do… if it’s got three steps, or you’ve got to do it more than three times, you need to write it down. Or when I say write it down, you could do a loom, or you could do a lot of different ways to capture it, but…

Meg Schmitz:
Sure.

Mike DeJong:
And then the validation… this… all that stuff comes later, after they get out of their own way. And then that gets them to here. Then they plateau, and then you gotta get them to here, and then they plateau. And at every step, it’s… it’s usually them, and or the people they surround themselves with.

Meg Schmitz:
I, on December 31st, decided that for 2026, I was going to have not only a mentor, but a different… I don’t call it accountability group, but it’s… it’s a group of thought leaders.

Mike DeJong:
Mmm.

Meg Schmitz:
Who are in my space, Who share the same goals that… that… we all have the same goal. We’re looking for a seven-figure revenue year, and whether we’ve ever done it before, or done it, lost it, trying to get back to that. mindset. It is all… it is all about the very clear and intentional baby steps that lead to daily discipline, that then leads to longer-term success. So trying to eat a year, 2026, I’m gonna do blah blah blah, it’s much easier to get to a bigger goal if you have the discipline to take smaller goals. steps, steps.

Mike DeJong:
It’s all, what do you call it, eating the elephant, you know, one bite at a time?

Meg Schmitz:
Read my mind.

Mike DeJong:
99% of people don’t even take the first step. And why… why don’t people take the first step? Or if they’ve taken the first step, why don’t… and the 10th and the 15th, but they won’t take the 16th, why not?

Meg Schmitz:
Why not?

Mike DeJong:
I’m stressed and I’m busy. I’m stressed and I’m busy. I’m stressed and I’m busy. That’s the adult version of, I have fear. When I hear someone say, I’m stressed, when I tell myself, no, I’m stressed, I’m telling myself, I’m afraid. I don’t know what comes next. I’ve never done this before. If I find myself cleaning my desk instead of doing the task I’m supposed to be doing. If I find myself doing tasks I know how to do instead of this new scary task that I don’t know how to do. I’m telling myself I’m afraid instead of telling myself I’m stressed.

Meg Schmitz:
And the universe, the vibration in the universe, it picks up on that, and I don’t want to sound too… Off in the, off… out in the weeds, but… I do firmly believe that what… what we tell ourselves inside our heads is what radiates intentionally or not, what radiates.

Mike DeJong:
I 100% believe in that.

Meg Schmitz:
Okay.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, read anything by Napoleon Hill, I mean…

Meg Schmitz:
Yes!

Mike DeJong:
I just finished, oh, there I go with a bad name again. It’s along the lines of a conversation with the devil. Was it, was it? Everyone knows, They could grow rich. Everyone’s read that.

Meg Schmitz:
Hmm.

Mike DeJong:
But it was… it was… Mind-altering to read that version of his book. And then you were talking about being in a thought leader group of people that want to get to six figures. I’m gonna challenge you. I’m gonna… I’m gonna challenge you! You need to find a mentor, mentors that are not just… are at six figures, but are at… Or 7 figures. Not just at 7 figures, but are at 8 or 9 or 10. So they’re so far ahead that that little bit to get to 7 is like, oh, you do this and this and this, as opposed to figuring out Figuring it out together. And I was always looking, like, at the level or one above, and I’ve started looking several Several levels above, and then they’re not easy to find, and they don’t want to spend time with you, because you’re not at their level. But it’s not impossible, either.

Meg Schmitz:
That said, which is… a lot of people are secretive and possessive of said traits, and then others, I found, for me personally, I don’t need to name names, but just in the last couple of months, have found some really interesting people in my world of franchising. who are those 7- or eight-figure people, high 7, 8-figure people, who very freely, this is an abundance mentality, put it right out there on YouTube and LinkedIn. Yeah. they have weekly, daily newsletters that you can opt in or out of, and I just shifted. One of my goals, Mike, was I wanted 5 new referrals every week. I just put it out there. On Monday morning, first thing, 8.30 when I get to the office. This week, I want 5 new referrals. I shifted that last week to, every day, I want to meet someone new. via LinkedIn, I’m going to… I’m going to… see what’s in my feed, in my notifications. I’m gonna find interesting people I don’t know yet, and ask them if they’d be interested in meeting with me. All for the sake of me building my referral network, because that’s. the only people I work with are people who want to own a franchise someday, but I only want to work with referrals. qualified people. So… Sure. That’s my new goal, is not asking for the elephant at the beginning of the week. But every day, taking a step towards… that outcome that I want, it makes it so much more manageable. Because for me, a stranger is a friend I haven’t met yet, so bring it on! One new person a day? How exciting is that for me?

Mike DeJong:
Right, and if you take that logically a step further, how can I help that person? Even if they never come back to become a referral for you, but how can you help them with something?

Meg Schmitz:
And that’s it. I used to sell Mary Kay cosmetics, the whole go-give mentality, this is not about me, it’s not what’s in it for me, it’s in meeting you. And you said it before, one of the top leadership skills is communication.

Mike DeJong:
Yes.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, communication is not a one-way street. It’s not someone talking all the time, it’s listening.

Mike DeJong:
Yes.

Meg Schmitz:
I can’t remember who I was talking to recently who said she leaned in and said… oh, I do know. Her strongest assessment tool is her ability to listen. She doesn’t use Myers-Briggs, she doesn’t use… not to begin with. But she asks questions, and then she leaves.

Mike DeJong:
No discs, no Myers-Briggs, just listens. Actively listens. That’s a rare skill.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, hopefully it’ll get to be more common after people listen to this podcast. But I think that’s what you’re getting at, too, with the leaders that you put in place, then. we’re not just managers or shift leaders who said, do it this way, this is… but you… you took the leadership role to say, I’m going to build a culture based on my understanding of each one of my team members who’s important enough to keep them. I’m going to listen to what they need.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah.

Meg Schmitz:
And to your point, it rarely is money first. It’s usually something that will, particularly now, give them greater engagement, that gives them Contentment outside of work.

Mike DeJong:
Absolutely correct. We all need money. We need a roof over our heads, food in our bellies. Some fun things to do now and then.

Meg Schmitz:
Nope.

Mike DeJong:
Or as my brother says, my brother’s in the homelessness space, and he says, every human being needs somewhere to live. Someone to love, and something to do.

Meg Schmitz:
Yes. And on that, alright, so… this book. not grow fast, but grow smart. What… if people wanted to find you for leadership advice, do you have a pod… do you have a, newsletter or training program? Is there something online that we can help to promote for you?

Mike DeJong:
Yeah, they could go to MikeDejong.com.

Meg Schmitz:
Okay. And sign up.

Mike DeJong:
I’ll get them into my newsletter that I… that was my goal for 2026, was to start a newsletter by the second quarter, so we’re coming up on that. Put what’s in here on paper. So you’ll be the first ones to, you know, assuming everyone’s watching this in early March of 2026, as soon as it comes out. Be one of the first ones to get into that newsletter. I also offer just free calls with people for an hour, where I will figure out what’s going on in your life and help you, with no sales. I just want to help people. And I love doing that. That’s where I get my jam.

Meg Schmitz:
And I totally appreciate that. I’m gonna be 63 in a couple of weeks. And there’s something about getting older and having hindsight, as well as wisdom and experience to share.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah.

Meg Schmitz:
it’s not all about the money, it’s… it is… but for me, and this is why I invited you to that networking meeting, is we’re all stronger together. We’re all in the same soup. We’re all living… living the dream. To some extent. And so, to create a safe space and a… a non-competitive.

Mike DeJong:
I’m totally industry agnostic. I don’t care how many people there are in hair care, how many people in food. We all have experience.

Meg Schmitz:
To help someone who’s there to say. I need this door opened. I need this problem solved. Has anyone seen this before? Bingo!

Mike DeJong:
And that cross-industry really helps, because people in industry tend to get focused in this narrow little band.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
Yeah.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, great. So, we will be promoting this episode, and we’ll be promoting your book, the one that I’ve got. You’ve got more coming… I know that you’re able to write from Australia.

Mike DeJong:
They are, they are with the editors as we speak.

Meg Schmitz:
Good for you. Well, thank you, Mike, for joining me today, and this has been lovely. I’m thankful for your time and your expertise and willingness to share as a former Wisconsinite, now a nomad. Where are you going next, after Galveston?

Mike DeJong:
I was gonna spend some time up in the Rocky Mountains, up in the Banff area.

Meg Schmitz:
Yeah.

Mike DeJong:
And then worked my way down south into… into… Probably as far as Colorado, and then after that, I’m actually not sure.

Meg Schmitz:
Well, proof positive, everybody, that as a business owner, once you move out of the operator role, you can run your business, literally.

Mike DeJong:
From anywhere. From anywhere.

Meg Schmitz:
Thank you, Mike, for joining me today. It’s been a true pleasure, and I’ll let you know when this episode is going to launch.

Mike DeJong:
Thanks, Meg. And I want to leave you with one quote that really hits hard with me, and leave your viewers with this. and this isn’t mine, this is from Jay Morrison, another U.S. Navy SEAL. Recently retired. And he says, everyone says they want something. But they want nothing more.

Meg Schmitz:
Oh…

Mike DeJong:
Thanks for the time today.

Meg Schmitz:
That’s a sneaky one. Thank you, Mike.

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