Overcoming Franchise Frustrations: How Real-World Experience Fuels Entrepreneurial Growth

Meg
Hello everyone and welcome to or welcome back to my podcast, the Free Agent. This conversation is all about free agency and taking control over your future. The mission of my show is to share inspiring conversations with real people who took the leap into self employment, business ownership, franchising and freedom from corporate refugees and executives tired of the desk job to entrepreneurs and investors looking to share camaraderie and inspiration through their own business journey. My podcast aims a spotlight on real people who stepped into the unknown to control over their destiny and became their own boss. And the epitome of that today. With me is Catherine Wilson. Thank you so much for joining me today, Catherine. I can’t wait to jump into your story.

Catherine
Thank you for having me. I’m excited.

Meg
So you and I had a chance a couple of weeks ago to catch up and it was really great for me to get the whole perspective from the day we met to where you are now, all the things that have happened that have shifted, changed your household dynamics. And it’s an inspiring conversation that my listeners, I know are going to connect with on a lot of different levels. So bumps, warts, pain points, let’s just talk through all the things that you have personally experienced in your business journey. And so why don’t we, you know what, why don’t we dive in with. When did you first have the idea that you wanted to be self employed and create your agency?

Catherine
Oh man. So I have always wanted to have my own business. Actually when I was, I think I was still in college and I was, I was a graphic design major and I was freelancing. I’ve always done work for other businesses and as always was really fascinating to me. But the first time I officially started my own business, actually we had moved to North Dakota and we were in the middle of the oil field and there were people starting businesses all around me and it just was a really amazing opportunity as somebody who worked in marketing to really help all these different business owners. So that was really my first time launching a full time business and yeah, just kind of gone from there.

Meg
I had no idea that you lived out there. What took you to North Dakota?

Catherine
So my husband was a police officer and actually when he got his first, when he was looking for jobs, I said I would go anywhere with him as long as it wasn’t further west than Fargo, North Dakota, which is where we both went to college. And Then where did we end up? Very far west. You almost couldn’t go more west in North Dakota, but we loved it there. We were there for a couple of years before moving to Wisconsin.

Meg
Well, that makes sense. Now there was a connection to your college days. Otherwise that would be quite a shift to go from the Midwest out there. All right, so what a great petri dish. You had other people who needed your services, plus you’re already a freelancer, so a bit of self employment and self direction had already played into your day to day work habits. So then you launched the business in what year?

Catherine
So that business we launched in, I think it was 2010.

Meg
Okay.

Catherine
So I had that business for a couple years and then when we moved to Wisconsin, I actually took a break from business ownership and went back and I worked for a couple different companies before going out again and starting, you know, starting Aviva, which is the business I have today. So.

Meg
Okay, then you and I met serendipitously at a networking event in Milwaukee. Unfortunately, the group no longer exists and you and I are mourning the loss of that group. But the young guns movement was quite a thing and I had been asked to moderate a panel. No, what was it? I was moderating a panel discussion, I guess, at that time. And then we opened it up, open mic. And there you were stepping boldly up to the mic. And do you remember what your question or request was that day?

Catherine
Absolutely. So this was so outside of my comfort zone, but yes, I stepped up to the microphone and the question I had for the panel was, basically, my life is so stressful. How do you get out of the stress of running a business? Or what can you do to make things less stressful? Running, you know, running a business? So I look back on that and I think we joked about it when we connected the other day. I don’t think I knew how little of stress I was under at the time because it just kind of evolves as we go. But yeah, we’ve come a long way since then.

Meg
That was such a great moment for me to be up on stage with the panel and listen to their answers because it reached into you being a wife, a mother of four at that point. Your boys were what, ages and under.

Catherine
I think My oldest was 12 at the time. 12 or 13. Yeah.

Meg
For active boys and a husband who had his own business aspirations. And I remember how. Yes. Dressed out you were. And so we connected after that to have further conversation. And that’s when Alex said, well, Catherine’s doing her thing. I want to. I want to have my own business as well.

Catherine
Yes.

Meg
I thought, oh my gosh, your household is going to be just on fire.

Catherine
It’s. There’s never a dull moment.

Meg
There is never a dull moment in your household. So there was a period of time then that Alex went, or you both did, because I worked with you for a while looking into franchise ownership. So talk a bit about that. And because it wasn’t a smooth journey and it wasn’t necessarily the ending that you were looking for when you exited, but talk about that segment of time. Time. Because for the listener, this is real life. This happens.

Catherine
Yeah, no, it was, yeah, it was crazy. So, you know, obviously having my own full time business, it took a lot of my time. Alex, you know, was looking into, he wanted to have a business, but he had been a police officer and then he had gotten out of law enforcement. I think he had been about six years out of law enforcement and he had gone into the trade. So he was a plumber. But his, his body wasn’t holding up to that. He was having, you know, he ended up actually just recently had his hip replaced and his knee replaced. So does not work well if you want to be in plumbing. So he knew that that was coming and so he wanted to transition into, into business ownership, but he didn’t really know where to start. And kind of through our, like our research and our, you know, you know, getting connected with different people, that’s when we really discovered franchising, which we thought would be a really good, good direction for us because it would give us, you know, kind of the plan and the tools to launch a business that we maybe didn’t have the experience in the industry. So yeah, so that’s the direction that we, that we started with.

Meg
And looking at Alex now and how independent he is, I think. And you got connected to the franchise that you ended up buying, not through me, but, but that was part of the research. And I remember thinking at some points that Alex was getting frustrated with things that were kind of rote with in the world of franchising. It’s all pretty predictable. The playbook is there and, and he was getting frustrated with things. Do you think that he or you is better suited to franchise ownership than the other?

Catherine
I don’t really know if either one of us in the end was probably the best fit for franchise ownership. I think when it comes to the, like, I think Alex, especially when we look back, was looking for an opportunity that maybe would have given more freedom and like in what he could do and where he could work and different things like that. And so I think, well, looking back we can see that the, you know, just the like the territories and you know, the different restrictions that you have when you’re in a franchise really wasn’t a good fit for what, you know, for what he ultimately wanted to do.

Meg
But now he’s blossoming, blossoming into some new directions all, all related to being self employed and sharing his knowledge and experience that he has gained over the last few years. How is his consulting going?

Catherine 
It’s going well. He tells everyone that he got an MBA equivalent of business ownership when he did. So there was, you know, there was a lot of, you know, obviously there’s a lot of frust frustrations and stuff that came out of, you know, the franchise situation. But at the same time he learned so much on how to run a business and what you needed to do and what not to do and what he really liked to do. So I think that was, yeah, he’s, he’s been doing really well and he, he really loves helping other businesses kind of navigate through all of that. And so that’s kind of what he’s, what he’s kind of found his little what he wants to do now.

Meg
So and I love that for him it, it, it really blends his, well there’s that, that do good for the community that comes from being a police officer. A lot of times people who are in law enforcement find themselves gravitating out of it for some pretty obvious reasons. But now he’s, and I agree with him. When I had my great clips, that was my first foray into business and then I was bought out. I thought wow, same thing. My dad wanted me to go back to Northwestern or whatever and get an MBA. I said I pretty much earned it already through the school of hard knocks. And so you’ve seen it now. Were there any advantages from franchise ownership that benefited your marketing business?

Catherine
I would say yes. I think kind of insight into the like limitations that franchise owners face when marketing their companies. That was really eye opening to me. So we now work with several different franchises across the US and we help them with their marketing. So that was obviously an incredible experience for us. And now that I can work with franchise owners and I understand like what they’re going through to some level that maybe somebody else might not. That’s been really helpful for us as well as we really look to kind of figure out what they can and can’t do on their own and how to market their businesses.

Meg
I think it’s such a, yeah, it of course elevates your credibility to have that experience as a franchise owner and being able to impart that. Those, aha. Moments where you go, oh, oh, yeah, I can do that. And then you have those, oh, oh, they won’t let me do that. So you definitely have sympathy for franchise owners or franchise companies and how hard it is to herd cats and get everybody doing the same campaign and executing it.

Catherine
Yeah, well, I think that’s probably one of the biggest things I learned is that. And what we. What we try to do differently is really take the time to understand each business’s unique market. Where some of the frustrations that we had when we’re working with, like, larger companies or the franchise that’s doing the marketing is they don’t always have the time to dive into that individual, you know, market and demographic. I’m actually talking with a franchise owner now in Minnesota, and he’s currently having his. The franchise is doing their marketing and we’re taking a look to see, well, how can we customize this a little bit more and kind of get a little bit different angle? So hopefully we’ll get to work with him. But yeah, it’s been kind of a unique experience there to really help make sure that they’re getting the biggest bang for their marketing dollar.

Meg
So when we connected a couple of weeks ago, I just want to shift gears a little bit into more of the personal side of business ownership for you and your own growth and maturation in. In your business, you’re hiring more people, you’re delegating more responsibility. You were a couple of weeks ago just oozing happiness. I think you said that word happy probably 29 times in the. In the half hour that we were talking. So for people who are listening and saying, I want that. How do you think, or no, that you went from that. That woman I met at the Young Guns movement networking event to where you are today? What got you here?

Catherine
I would definitely say having the right mentors and coaches has been like, instrumental. I know I’ve had a few coaches over the last couple years, and they’ve all had different areas that they’ve really helped me grow, whether it’s in leadership or like tactical growth or different things like that. So I can absolutely say having somebody that you trust that you can be open with and talk to their problems and can help you kind of work through those things has been amazing.

Meg
So that’s one on one coaching. We were both unhappy that the Young Guns movement had broken up and it’s no longer organizing events. Have you Found other groups. So you’re talking about one on one coaching and mentoring. Are there other networking groups that you’ve joined?

Catherine
So I’m also. So for me, mentorship is huge and like, having a community is so important. So I’m also in, I’m in a CEO roundtable group. That’s been really awesome. And then we also, we implemented EOS. So the book Traction, if. I don’t know if you have talked about that before, but that has been also, you know, having a community there of other business owners, like just, you know, Facebook groups and things like that, where we can, you know, as we come up with challenges, a place you can ask questions, like even things like that have been really helpful.

Meg
So for you with the CEO group, is that out of Milwaukee or is that more virtual?

Catherine
It’s, it’s in Waukesha. It’s through the Waukesha County Business Alliance. So I’ve been in that group now for three years. I think so.

Meg
So this just takes me back to 19. No, no, no. 2003 is when I sold my great club. So that had been 12 or almost 13 years that I’d been with them. And I remember thinking, I’m CEO of my own company. I’m gonna go and join a CEO group. And I realized for just me personally back then that I did not, I wasn’t all that I thought I was cracked up to be. And so I needed to take a step back and do a little more work on myself in order to participate fully and really align with the experience that some of these other people have had. You are much more qualified. How big is the group and, and what is it composed of? And how do you, how do you get the best takeaways from that group?

Catherine
So I can, I can absolutely though, like, resonate with what you’re saying. It can be like. When I first joined the group, it was incredibly intimidating, especially being, you know, I’m. There’s a couple other women now in the group, but they have a lot of experience and they run much bigger companies than me. And so it was, it was intimidating, but I would say. So there’s probably. It fluctuates around. There’s around eight, eight other business owners in the group. So it’s pretty small. And I would say for me, the biggest way that I can get the most value out of it is to just be engaged and participate. I’ve missed the last couple months. So outside of that, I try to show up every single month, bring questions, just be open and honest with everybody and we Have a really safe space so we can talk about things. And that’s been. Yeah, it’s been really, really helpful.

Meg
And I, I applaud you for, for volunteering that because so many people get into a group and they opt to be quiet. I don’t know enough. I don’t have enough to contribute. You have to think about this group of people. Everyone started where you are.

Catherine
We’re.

Meg
Everyone has gone through the same experience. We all started. Somewhere there was a little popcorn kernel of an idea that went, it doesn’t start off being a hundred million dollar, ten million dollar company. You’ll start with zero dollars and then you have to grow it from there. So I applaud you for getting in there and, and asking questions. That’s what I find it’s hardest for people who just get started is to participate.

Catherine
Yeah. I always feel like I can bring a little different insight too, because I am the youngest one in the group and I fall into that millennial demographic, so I get to get to be the voice of the millennials in the group.

Meg
Fun. Have there been any big surprises over the course of version two of your business where you said, oh, holy, I got to deal with this?

Catherine
I think more times than I can count. Yeah, there’s, there’s. It seems like there’s always things coming up and, you know, things you can plan for everything. But I feel like sometimes when you have all the perfect plan in the world, it. Something just comes along to mess it up and you just have to roll with it.

Meg
So what’s the. What are some of the key differences to how you handle those moments now versus Catherine from five or eight years ago?

Catherine
Yeah, I would say, honestly, even in the last six months, I feel like I’ve even focused on handling things differently. One thing, like, from a personal level, my husband was always my sounding board, and he’s always been someone I talked to. And, and really what we found is that was creating a lot of unnecessary stress, like, in our marriage and in our personal life. And I could never escape from work because it was just always surrounding me. And so, like I mentioned, I work with different business coaches. The business coach I work with right now has been really helpful where he’s like, instead of going and, you know, processing things with Alex, he’s like, send me a voice note. Call me. Like, let him be that sounding board so I can keep that business stress, you know, and, and those processing. I’m a verbal processor, so taking that, like, verbal processing away from my relationship with my husband so that can you Know, kind of stay a safer space. And I think that has been. That’s just been huge. So when things come up, we just actually had something when I was on vacation last week, I can just drop him a voice note. He can help me process through things, and then I can go on with my life without it ruining my day or anything else.

Meg
Yeah. Marital happiness, when there is, well, one business in the household, let alone two. Or like Pete and me, we have seven businesses between us. And just a little side note, you just got back from a getaway. Pete and I just got back yesterday afternoon from we were up in Door County. I think we spoke about 29 words in the four and a half hours that we were in the car. We just really separate church and state. And that’s what you’re talking about with Alex is regaining your marital stability. A lot of the time means you have to. You have to have those mentors, coaches, outlets, lifelines, so that someone else can. The spouse needs to know where your brain is, but they don’t need to be in the trenches with you.

Catherine
Yeah. Well, and what he was telling me, the business coach has been telling me, is, you know, is talking to Alex about this going to make it. Things better or is it going to just add stress? Like, because Alex is somebody who cares a lot about what I’m going through. And so if I’m stressed and, you know, then he gets stressed. And so that’s been really helpful. Like, there are some times still when something comes up and I do need to talk to Alex about it, but if it’s not something that’s going to make my stress less and it’s. It’s just not worth it. So that’s been. That’s been huge. And I would say that we really made that shift, like six months ago. And it’s been. Sometimes it’s so hard. I like to talk and I like to tell Alex everything that’s going on, but it’s not always. Not always healthy.

Meg
Well, and having been on the other side of a marriage that didn’t work out due to business, it’s. And this is how I approach the research with all of my candidates, your wife, your life and your money. Every conversation we’re going to talk about how is this fitting with what works. If your marriage works, your lifestyle works, your money is working, then let’s make sure that this investment is going to be beneficial to the entire household. Otherwise, they’re pretty dramatic consequences. So good for you for preserving what works. It’s so much fun to see you and Alex together. And I know that he’s actually going to be having a conversation with my husband about investing. Yeah.

Catherine
So I’m really excited about that. So.

Meg
And it’s just one of your sons or more who’s interested in the world of finance right now?

Catherine
Just, just one. So, yeah, we have four boys and our oldest just turned, he’s 15. So he, he went to a class with Alex and they both were really interested in all of that. And I was excited because I was about Connor’s age. My oldest, I was about his age when I first decided I was going to go into graphic design. And so I’m seeing him now and I’m seeing him have an interest in, you know, finance and business ownership. So it’s, it’ll be fun to see where that goes.

Meg
The business imprint, it’s, it’s in the genetic code, apparently.

Catherine
I think. So he’s already dog sitting for the neighbors, so.

Meg
Oh, good. Yeah. Budding entrepreneurs. It’s really fun. And my son has, of course, seen me. I think he was two years old when I first got into business ownership via franchising. So then he lived through the divorce. I think he was seven when his dad and I split. And to this day he’s just turned 35. So 33 years of watching me versus watching his dad. And he will directly tell you he credits me with the work ethic and he credits his dad with the play ethic. He’s got the nice balance of work and play.

Catherine
Yeah.

Meg
But very much our kids are watching what we’re doing and how we’re reacting. Last week when you were away, were all four boys with you?

Catherine
Yes. Yep. We were down in, down in Florida. My oldest actually had a basketball tournament, so we turned that into a family vacation.

Meg
Was that the first time that you’ve all escaped without the heavy burden of business weighing you down?

Catherine
I think so. I, I think last last year for like Labor Day weekend, I think we were able to get away for like a day or two, but this is definitely the longest that I’ve ever been gone and not worked for hours every single day. So that was a little different.

Meg
How did you protect yourself? How did, or how did you create that, that security blanket around you to unplug and go away knowing that Eviva would, would be taken care of?

Catherine
Well, that would be the. So the EOS system has been incredible. And about a year and a half ago, I hired a director of operations. So she’s been with us now for a year and a half and she has been Amazing. Without her, I would never be able to leave for a day. So she. She really has stepped in, and she’s really been just an instrumental part of kind of how we’re growing and scaling and getting processes in place. And so it’s been. It’s been incredible to have her.

Meg
So EOS is enterprise operating system, right?

Catherine
Entrepreneur operating system. Okay. But yes.

Meg
And so there’s the technology side of it, and then there’s the people side of it. Did that particular hire come along at just the right time? Was it sort of out of thin air, or was that a strategic move? And you found, combing through a lot of resumes, you found the right person. How. How did that come together for you?

Catherine
So that’s actually. It’s kind of a fun story. So I actually had interviewed her, and she had applied for a copywriting role, like, a year before. And when I interviewed. When we had an interview, I knew I wanted to work with her someday, but she would never be happy as a copywriter. Like, she was, you know, figuring out kind of what she wanted to do. And we didn’t have any other. Any other roles, like, available at the time, but I just. I knew someday we would work together. And so then a year later, we were looking to hire for kind of somebody more in, like, a strategy role. And I. I feel like God has a hand in a lot of things. And she actually reached out to me on LinkedIn randomly right as we were, like, starting to post for this job or thinking about posting for this job, and just said, hey, I’m still looking for something. If you ever have anything available, would you let me know? And really, it took us about three or four months of conversations and talking through. Talking through it. But she joined the team originally as a strategist. And within about two weeks, I was processing things with my husband because I was still doing that at the time. And he goes, she needs to be your integrator. Like, just. I was telling her about Jen and what she was doing and all these things, and it was like, yeah, she does. Like, this absolutely is what I need. And really, what she’s so wonderfully, like, her experience and everything is fit to do. So it kind of. It was a little bit of planning, but it kind of just happened.

Meg
So I love that story that sometimes the best people are just waiting in the wings. It’s not the right time. And then, yeah, suddenly something trips in the universe and everything comes together and it gels. I’m so glad for you because that the woman who was there at the young guns microphone. That day is not who you are today. And the, the metamorphosis. I was just at a nature escape up in Door county over the weekend. I’m going to use this analogy. You, you went from that caterpillar in the chrysalis and now you’ve come out the other side. The monarch butterfly has taken off and you’re doing well. I know enough to know just like any monarch butterfly knows life isn’t easy, business isn’t always predictable and that the happy factor that you’ve got right now, it can be fleeting. But I think you now know how to grab it and hold on to it. Where for whatever years ago that was, it was elusive.

Catherine
Yeah, no, and I love that we’ve gotten to know each other and I like to try to look back. So I think a lot of times too, we’re always looking forward on how can we improve. But it’s really important to look back and see like. Yeah, how far, how far have we come? I mean, I look back to even when I started my first business out in North Dakota. Like I would give that person so much more advice and do things so much differently, but that’s how we get to where we are. So.

Meg
And it is, it is a good thing to plan. Gosh, we have done three year, five year, 10 year plans. I’m 63, 62 at this point and Pete 65. Neither one of us has any intention of retiring, but there’s definitely a path forward that should be less time, loss of our time so that we can hand over the reins. And have you created any sort of an exit plan for yourself?

Catherine
I have about 20 more businesses that I want to start. Oh, good for you. That’s, that’s my problem is that like, well, I just, if I would ever free up my time, I’d probably just be starting more businesses which I don’t know if that’s, if that’s healthy, but honestly, I really, I really haven’t. My goal is to have the business running so that it doesn’t need me in the day to day. And actually if you look back over the last year, a year ago I was working personally in every single account I knew every single client. And fast forward now to today. I have, our team is handling and they’re doing an amazing job. There’s clients that don’t even know who I am, which I’m completely okay with. I do, I do still work with, with some of our higher, you know, higher end accounts. But yeah, I think I don’t exactly know where, where we’re going as a company there or what the exit strategy is. But I do know if it, I guess we’ll, we’ll just kind of see where things go. I still like you don’t, don’t see myself not working anytime.

Meg
Well, that’s the, the fun for me over the years has been shifting the, the view from this or that I’m going to own a business or I’m going to have a job. Okay, well, I got thrust into business ownership and had a job but at some point it just made more sense to do one thing and do one thing well. And as I’ve gotten more experience and less involved on a day to day basis by surrounding myself with the right people and the right technology, then you can get into the diversification mode where it’s, it’s operating as a flywheel. Of course there’s going to be breakdowns and they’re going to be things that happen. But for you, and as entrepreneurial as you are, I see you being able to delegate and keep your hands involved in more than one, if not two or three and continue to add on or diversify and, and scratch that entrepreneurial itch. Entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs and there’s always another idea floating around in there.

Catherine
Absolutely. I know my, my current idea, it involves my kids as well, which I’m really again, I’m excited about. It’s not the time yet. I need to make sure I don’t try to take on too much, which is also something I’ve learned a lot about is I would have a year, a couple years ago I probably would have been like, well, I’m going to do it now and I don’t want to wait. So. But yeah, I would love to have a business that my kids get to be a little bit more involved with. So maybe as they get older we’ll be able to, to do something there, but we will see.

Meg
Well, it’s, you’ve got a lot of levity now that you know that, that hurry up, let’s do it. Let’s do. I have the idea. It’s hot and fresh and let’s do it. And sometimes it’s better to wait and let it evolve until the time is better.

Catherine
Well, I think having having a team has really helped me there too because back when the company was a lot smaller and you know, we didn’t have as many people we could, we could jump on the next idea that I had, you know, and it, it didn’t, you know, it was like, well, whatever, whatever idea Catherine has, we’ll do it. And now, you know, we have 15 employees now. And so for me to go and say, well, now let’s go do this and let’s go do that, like they would, they would not be happy. So that’s really helped me.

Meg
A really, really important point there is what I see. And Pete and I do a lot of mentoring with startup companies. The, the challenge for entrepreneurs is focusing on the thing, not on the shiny sparklies and oh, this isn’t working. So I’m going to go try this. If when you know your why and you know the Simon Sinek why analogy, diversifying too much too soon confuses employees and clients.

Catherine
Absolutely.

Meg
You can’t afford to burn either one of those bridges. So good for you for holding back and building that infrastructure because yes, now you’ve got, you’ve got navigators. What did Alex call integrator?

Catherine
Yeah, integrator, Yep. So EOS, you have the visionary, which is me coming up with all the ideas and then the integrator is. Yeah, she helps me sift through them. Actually today we had a meeting and I was like, I have this idea. We talked about it and I said, but now is not the right time, but we’re going to keep this idea over here. So she helps me process through all those, all those shiny objects.

Meg
Yeah. So important to surround yourself with the right people. Looking back because we talked about how far you’ve come, what advice would you give younger you.

Catherine
Learn to like processes and systems. I, I still don’t like them, but I understand how important they are. And I think before I just, I would wing it a lot and like I knew what I was doing and so I could jump in and fix something or do something, but I didn’t have any systems or processes so that somebody else could help me. And so I think that really that slowed down our growth probably in the first few years just because everything relied on me and my experience and my knowledge. And so that’s been. If I could go back and do something different or, or teach myself something faster, it would be to, to start documenting, you know, and build up processes.

Meg
It certainly makes, it makes the work of the work easier for someone else to step in. So it’s not being bootstrapped in a different way for. Yeah, there are a lot of good lessons learned there. Anything that you regret either doing or not doing that you would change.

Catherine
Oh, that’s a good question. I’m trying to think. I probably I did, I jumped around a little bit more and I wish I wouldn’t have as we, you know, as we were getting things started because I would get distracted. I invested a lot of money into different tools and ideas that really never went anywhere. So just because I had the idea, but I didn’t have the plan to see it all the way through and I didn’t have the team to support me. And so I think that I probably wasted a lot of money and a lot of time trying different ideas and not, you know, not having the people in place to actually help me see it through to completion.

Meg
So would that have been a correction that would have come from a mentor or from one of your trusted circle?

Catherine
I think so, yeah. Well, and I didn’t start working with a business coach. I think it was probably year four of the business and so. And that would probably be something too, or it seems like there’s so it’s such an expensive, you know, investment, but at the same time it ends up saving you in those decisions. Like if I would have had somebody, you know, telling me, no, don’t go do that, you know, focus here, you know, I might have, I probably would have paid for the cost of a, of a coach.

Meg
And that’s another really good point. Coaches are invaluable and so many people resist too long. And it’s not that it’s irretrievably broken, but you, you get so far down the rabbit hole, it’s hard to look back up and oh, there’s daylight up there. I need to go back up there. Yeah. Having that, having that coach or the team of trusted advisors is so dang important.

Catherine
Yeah. Well, and I remember thinking when I did, when I did decide to pull the trigger and hire my first. Well, I did a group coaching thing first, which was just pretty awesome. And then I, it was about a year or two later that I did the one on one coach. And I remember the first few meetings just thinking like, they’re successful if I’m successful. Like if they don’t help me grow this business, I’m not going to continue working with them. And so it was kind of cool to realize that like their goal with working like somebody else’s goal is to help me. And so that was just kind of cool, especially as like you can be really like isolated or kind of feel like you don’t have somebody that understands you, you know, when you’re running a business. So that was just a really cool aha moment. When I started working with my first business coach.

Meg
I know exactly who I’m going to share this recording with this afternoon.

Catherine
I got it.

Meg
Yes. This is, this is what I like about having my own podcast is that I, I’m formulating questions, thinking about people who maybe I would refer to you or maybe who would benefit from listening to this recording as a female in business and trying to raise four boys. And they’re all I get to ask the questions that come to my mind as I’m thinking about other people. So I’ve got a few people I’m going to forward this to. I can’t wait.

Well, is there anything. Because I know we’re short on time a little bit today and we’re doing this impromptu. Is there anything I have not asked you that you would really want another business owner to hear come from you?

Catherine
I can’t think of anything. I would think, honestly, like, having, having a mentor, having, having that, like, circle of, of other business owners has been just instrumental. And I would say the only other, the only other thing I would say is it doesn’t even have to be like a formalized, like, group of people. Like, one of my, probably my closest friend, she owns an accounting firm and we both kind of started businesses around the same time. And you’d think like a marketing agency and an accounting firm don’t really have that much in common. But honestly, like I said, we both started around the same time and we have had, like, it’s almost amazing, like, she runs across some issue and a month later I’m dealing with it or like vice versa. And we talk probably three times a week right now, like, she usually calls me when she’s driving into the office and like, that friendship and has been, that’s probably been just as good as having, you know, all these other, you know, mentors and groups and, and having somebody that I can talk to and really relate to and knows what I’m going through has been huge.

Meg
And so I’m going to do a little shameless plug here for the first Friday networking group that is the first Friday of every month. That for me, starting that group more than 12 years ago and where it is today. The biggest benefit we had, of course, was the pandemic and pivoting into zoom instead of in person meetings. I miss those. I miss those meetings. But now the really rewarding element of the first Friday meeting is I see the chat because I save it at the end of the me. I see who’s connecting one on one in a sidebar. You’re doing it in the moment. And we used to have to wait until the room broke up and hopefully you catch who you want to see before they walk out the door. So many great relationships like you’re talking about have. Have begun. And the main reason I started that networking group is that we’re all in business. This big drink that we’re in, we’re all seeing the same stuff. We all had economic downturns, unemployment, shifts in technology. You get a pandemic thrown in there. It’s not competition as much as collaboration. It’s what are you doing to stay. They’re general best practices that a business owner can join a group like that for free. And there are all these other people who. Who can nod their head and say, yeah, I live through that, and you will too, but let’s navigate the path and on how to get your head above water. And I think that’s the best thing about these networking groups that are out there is find one and align with one and start making friends, because you will.

Catherine
Yeah, I know. That’s. I do miss the young guns and having that in person. But, I mean, as you know, I have four kids. They’re out of school right now, but we’ll be starting school shortly. Like, having a virtual group is amazing because I don’t, you know, I’m able to join something like that where if. Yeah. In person is a lot more difficult. So.

Meg
Yeah, well, maybe I will and maybe I won’t. See you tomorrow morning. I guess it depends on what the boys are doing. Tomorrow is August 1st. It’s hard to believe that summer is moving along so quickly, but kudos to all four boys for being downstairs and giving their mom the time to do this interview. So thank you so much for joining me today, Catherine. It’s always great to see you, and I can’t wait to have this episode launch.

Catherine
Yeah, thanks for having me.