How Franchise Owners Can Adapt Fast: PR Insights on Change, Crisis, and Connection

How Franchise Owners Can Adapt Fast: PR Insights on Change, Crisis, and Connection

What if the most effective franchise PR strategy or PR insights weren’t about flashy campaigns or big budgets, but something quietly overlooked—like knowing when to ignore your own success and focus on the “babies” in your business? In this conversation, a legendary PR pro reveals the surprising moments that shaped iconic brands, the one unconventional method that still works decades later, and why Gen Z might force you to rethink everything you thought you knew about branding. Oh, and you’ll never guess how AI could completely flip your franchise’s future… Want to know what really moves the needle for franchise growth and reputation? Stick around, because some of these answers are not what you’d expect.

My special guest is Rhonda Sanderson

Rhonda Sanderson brings a wealth of experience, PR insights, and a fresh, honest voice to franchise public relations, making her a standout in an industry often driven by hype. Starting her journey in journalism and quickly finding her place in PR, Rhonda was instrumental in shaping how franchisors connect with the media and potential owners. She’s navigated everything from old-school media tours to the rise of digital and social platforms, never losing sight of the human side of the business. Her career highlights include helping brands like Subway get noticed in crowded markets and building support systems for franchisees that last. Rhonda’s personal resilience, sharp wit, and ability to spot what truly matters in a story have earned her trust across the franchise world. She has a unique way of breaking down complex challenges and making PR approachable for both new and seasoned franchise professionals.

You really have to baby some of the new franchisees; stay on new franchisees for one whole year with all the services you offer and remind them, stay on top of a lot of them.

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Discover how shifting from corporate life to self-employment can unlock new freedoms and challenges that shape your franchise success.
• Build a PR strategy that cuts through the noise and drives real growth for your franchise network.
• Nurture new franchisees effectively to boost retention and create a stronger, more loyal brand community.
• Adapt your business approach to connect with Gen Z consumers and tap into a powerful new market.
• Leverage AI’s impact on public relations to transform how your franchise communicates and stays ahead.

Building Effective Franchise PR Strategy
A successful franchise PR strategy focuses on authentic storytelling that highlights franchise strengths and customer experiences. It requires consistency in messaging across all locations and channels to create a unified brand image. Moreover, an effective strategy actively engages media, influencers, and communities to build trust and generate sustained public interest.

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

• Listen to the podcast on Spotify and all the regular vehicles for listening to podcasts.
• Follow and promote the podcast when it is released by sharing it with your network.
• Connect with Gregory FCA in Philadelphia to learn more about their AI-driven PR solutions.
• Explore franchise opportunities with Floor Coverings International, Serta Pro Painters, and Salsaritas Fresh Mexican Grill.
• Reach out for PR services or occasional projects, especially if you are a Chicagoan or franchise company seeking best practices.
• Tune in to the Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz for real stories of self-employment and business ownership. Contact Meg Schmitz to schedule a free, no-obligation call and get insider insights on franchise opportunities. Use the form at the FREE Agent Podcast if you’d like to be considered as a guest on the Show!

Subscribe now to our FREE Franchise Insights to get every new podcast episode delivered to your inbox! Free Subscription. No spam. Not sold to others. Unsubscribe anytime.

Click to Take the Leap into the full interview transcript of the Free Agent Podcast, Episode 7.20, with Meg Schmitz and her guest, Rhonda Sanderson

 

Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz – Guest: Rhonda Sanderson, “Queen of PR” & Franchise Communications Leader

Meg:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to or. Welcome back to my podcast. It’s the Free Agent with Meg chmitz. I am your lovely host. This discussion is all about free agency and taking control over your financial future.

The mission of my show is to share inspiring conversations with real people who took the leap into self employment, business ownership, franchising, and freedom. From corporate refugees and executives tired of the desk job, to entrepreneurs and investors looking to share camaraderie and inspiration through their own business journey.

My podcast aims to spotlight on real people who stepped into the unknown, took control over their destiny, and became their own boss. Today, I am so delighted and excited to have Rhonda Sanderson, the queen of PR.

Rhonda:
There’s my crippled little finger. Hi, guys.

Meg:
And your puppy, who may stick his little head up periodically. Perfect. This is absolutely an inclusive show. Dogs are welcome.

Rhonda:
Like, I could get rid of them if I wanted to.

Meg:
Right. Well, and I’ve got my 85 pound lab on one foot and then I’ve got the other little one right outside lying in the sun, so.

Rhonda:
Oh, well,

Meg:
we’ll have some extra company here today. So, Rhonda, as the queen of public Relations.

Rhonda:
And Dowager queen now. Okay, that’s good. Thanks.

Meg:
A fellow franchise fashionista.

Rhonda:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Meg:
Yeah, you and I have been around the block a time or two in the world of franchising. Tell my audience about you. When did you get into public relations? Why did you get into it? And. And then we’ll talk about what it really means, how it functions and where it is.

Rhonda:
Now, all good questions and frankly, if as a PR person, if I looked at my own story, I’d say, well, that’s a good story. But like, no offense, who cares? We also know that nobody cares about you or your. You know, when I used to tell clients, you know, they say proud. I said, the only person proud of you is your mother. So just make sure you’re just being candid. Right. I was married to an athlete. We’re talking I’m a hundred, so I look good for. I only look out 98, but we’re talking 1981. I kid married to a professional athlete. We had a terrible tragedy. We lost A son. It resulted in horrible things, unfortunately, as you can imagine, and including a divorce.

When I came back to Chicago, I was living in Canada. That’s where all hockey players live. And when I came back, my best friend, who was Miss December of 1979. So we’re dating ourselves, but now we can actually date other people too. But she had a PR firm. It was a 404 man office, and she was using them. She had won some contest in Chicago, the Eyes of Chicago. So she said, I want to introduce you to, to my PR guy, because you’d be perfect. You know, you have a journalism background. You have the gift for gab. Big time, you know,

Meg:
Big time.

Rhonda:

We did and we did. And that grew into a bigger agency. Sherry Fishman ended up. Her name was Sherry Cannell. She ended up becoming also somebody from that agency. I remember being going through training with Diane Trago, one of our. One of our other queens who’s passed since then. And Sherry was our favorite, her favorite little, you know, not even an intern. She came, she came aboard right after school. And also, frankly, this is an aside. She had a tragic car accident six weeks after she came to the firm, sadly, and it was very serious.

And I remember our cheap boss. I won’t even mention to him because he’s passed, but everybody knows who he was. He said, I can’t afford to have this new girl on my payroll. She’s going to be out for months. And I said, well, her dad’s a big litigator, so if I were you, I’d be keeping her on and we’ll figure it out. And I always say to Sherry, I saved your job. You just didn’t know it. And she goes, I don’t. Thank you or not. And I said, yeah, I get it.

But anyway, she, as we know, she has since gone on to do great success with her husband Brad. And. But I was there before them. And I turned what this firm we came out of had one client that came in, or one would be prospect that came in and they said, blah, blah, blah, and we’re going to grow like McDonald’s. And we were doing just food products or whatever was around Chicago restaurants mostly. And he said, do you know anything about franchising? And I just kicked my boss under the table, like, of course we do, you know, and that’s how that started.

And it turned out later on a few clients later, after we tested like a system to get him. He wanted to go out on the road and tell his story. We did in those days, you did media tours. No tech, no phones. No. You called and cold pitched over the phone, oh, I got this great guest and he’s going the way of McDonald’s. You know, that’s. That was a big pitch that. No, it’s like, what, what does that mean? And we built up a little system. Radio, tv, main paper or business journal. And we would send these guys and let me tell you, the airfare, I’ll never forget the airfare to Columbus, Ohio, was $600 then. And the guy was kind of like, wow, I don’t know. So we had to, we had to make sure we got these interviews.

Meg:
Yeah.

Rhonda:
Then later down the road, we learned that after we set up about 20 of those for different. We were getting more franchise people and the reporters were catching on that we were just fishing for leads. But they still did it. Sometimes they said, okay, we’re going to do all the interviews and when they sell their first one here, call us. And then we knew, oh, man, we have to now evolve into another method so they could get leads.

So this is how it evolved. And of course, one of them ended up being Fred DeLuca from Subway.

Meg:
Sure.

Rhonda:
And we would send sandwiches to all the radio stations. In those days, there was no fear of poisoning or crazy stuff. And, you know, we thought he’d get, you know, 20, 30 calls, and in one market, he got 1,000 leads.

Meg:
Wow.

Rhonda:
And that’s how we knew that we were onto something. But so was he. This, you know, this, you know, $7,500 might be even less for franchise fee. And people thought, wow, I can get in business for myself. So that’s how we started.

When I broke off from this firm, I got pregnant again with my second husband. And I thought, I don’t know if I want all this stress. So I went off on my own, and we did it in a friendly manner. And I took a few clients with me, and I decided to specialize only in franchising because that’s really how I kind of developed the program for it.

And I thought, well, there seems to be a lot of people who could use this. And that’s how that started. So that was in. I left him in 1983. So I started. Yeah, around 1983, I think. I. I really started. And then 1986, I. I started my own firm.

Meg:
Good for you. So, you’re the epitome of a free agent.

Rhonda:
Yeah, the epitome of it. And it was little, believe me, but, you know, in those days, four clients was Fine for, you know, I had very reasonable fees, but I had what they called the SNS method, that was the name of the firm. And we had already gotten a little well known from helping build Subway.

So to leave and to say that Sherry also worked on Subway when she was there after I left. So that is, I will say that if you’re going to get trained in franchise PR, that was the greatest company to start your experiments with, or shall we say your methods, your methodology. He was great about it. We would send him on tours. Like I said, he was charismatic. Interview, you know, Fred was good looking. He sounded great on the radio. He so much passion for his product.

So we send him to like the biggest radio station in Cincinnati. Now that sounds small, but it covered nine states. You know, a tremendous, you know, venue then. And we just load the station with sandwiches and all over town. And the paper sometimes picked it up because of that giant radio show. So it was a spiraling, snowballing effect.

And that’s what’s been used, I want to say, for years. Even Sherry and I both still use our fishermen, and I both still use the initial methodology that we created. Okay. And of course it’s had to evolve tremendously because now there’s not even reporters. But we’ve managed to do it. And I had a 60 clients, 20 employees at one point.

And I got breast cancer in 2009. And I have to tell you, I’m pretty brave, but it slowed me down. I had to go to chemo. My girls, I’d come back into the office and they’d all have blonde wigs on. They all went blonde wigs to be supportive because I was bald. It was both touching, but stressful, the whole thing. I came right from chemo, right to the office, never stopped. And it’s kind of better for you to just stay busy like that, I think. But on the third day after, I’d be violently ill and I’d have to stay home.

And you know what? My staff picked it up for me, you know, so it was a lovely experience and a lovely time. You know who was even better than my employees? My clients. We had a few horrible terror stories, but very few in ratio with what there are out there. I mean, 90% of my clients I would take back today. They’re right.

Don’t you find that with franchisors, that kind of salt of the earth, 80, you know, not con men, you know, looking for that is that element shows up now and then in franchising. But the average person. I made such great friends. They were the most wonderful normal people, I mean for the most part very grounded.

Two men in a truck built them from a very small, not me alone but their team. But with this PR I think they had I used to call them one man in a van because they were literally Mary Ellen Sheets. Her kids went off to school and she kept answering the phone. And that’s how they were just doing it for like college money, high school money when they went out, you know the story.

But that was a great story to tell and look at them now and they’ve had. They had a wonderful team and support. And in other words they became a fabulous franchisor too, which is of course you have to be. PR can help only so much. But if you’re. If you don’t have it or your product or your service is terrible or your leadership is terrible, it’s over. You know that you’ve been in that arena. So that’s how it all started.

Meg:
Excellent. I have been involved with some bad companies personally. I started with Great Clips which was a fabulous experience and expanded to five locations there.

Rhonda:
Well your hair looks great. That’s all it really matters. Right. But then to feel good. We know Ricardo Montovan said that. Okay.

Meg:
Yes indeed. And I agree with you the world of franchising. It all starts with an entrepreneur who had an idea and had had some curiosity around whether this thing could really grow. And so your expertise has been in helping some of these smaller franchise companies realize their dream of expansion.

How has, so PR stands for public relations and that can be positive. Let’s blow a great message out there. It could be in response to something that’s negative. We need to do damage control.

Rhonda:
Most important, actually more important than the positive. But we’ll will go on.

Meg:
So, what is your firm doing these days that’s different from how public relations used to be?

Rhonda:
Well, I wouldn’t say I. And you know you’re. You’re so generous to call it a firm. I’m really semi retired. I kept four clients the ones that frankly I’ve been the longest time they asked me not to go and what could be better And I don’t mind naming them for most of first service brands. Charlie Chase who to me is the ultimate Tom Wood. As you know from Floor Coverings International.

Tom and Charlie and I started with Serta Pro Painters when they had like two painters. So we’ve been growing together since like for sure early 90s. And you know we Built this tremendous relationship. And Phil Friedman is that one, one person that’s outside of it. And he is, was McAllister’s Deli. That’s my one restaurant. He is now Salsaritas Fresh Mexican Grill.

But what this all has in common and why we all stayed as we were totally an integrated team. And I also adored them and respected them as leaders. So I never felt guilty about somebody buying a franchise, which I had in the past on some companies. I know you have too. Yes, I never felt guilty because I knew what great leaders they were and the person was in great hands. Even if they couldn’t make it, they would help them out. Do you see what I mean? You know what I’m talking about, Meg. You understand all of this.

So I never had a. I kept these four, the four in total. And I, I do an occasional, shall we say, project for people and especially some Chicagoans who know about me. But all in all, my allegiance is to these Charlie Chase’s brands and Phil Friedman Salsaritas.

And how has it changed? Well, at first I hated how it changed because reporters started disappearing, as you well know, Media started disappearing. And it wasn’t like overnight. I think people thought it was, but it was definitely in a five, six, seven year period. Now we just, we just witnessed. I just got a Google alert on Newswire Media or. Oh, no, News media, somebody. Anyway, they had 14 papers, the little local ones you always want because they’re. We call multiple publishers. So if you have a territory of 20 markets, they, they probably had a paper that covered it well, they’ve closed down and just one of the latest ones.

So the difference is we now. I try to find the upside because you have to. So we now control the message more. When we used to get. Send people out in interviews, the downside was lots of mistakes from reporters, lots of misquotes. I mean normally it was a fabulous, like entrepreneur, something fabulous experience. And you, you’ve got hundreds of leads and you got a good story out of it. On the back side, even the Wall Street Journal made typos and not typos, but, you know, got their facts wrong.

So when everything kind of changed over and I realized, I realized I had to be in charge of all the content. I was like, is this credible? Is this. Well, now what I realize is there’s completely approved content. There’s no mistakes going in, no misquotes. So when we do pieces. And also I have a staff member who’s an accredited journalist with neighborhood papers. I mean, you have to really go through testing. You just can’t go in and say, hi, I’m putting inside my bulletin board.

So it’s really finding ways to get the message out. You can’t make it. And just a little tip for anybody that’s listening, don’t make it a sales or marketing message. Make it a factual message. PR is different from marketing is we’re the best, we’re the biggest. And PR is here’s the obstacles we overcame and here’s where we are now. You know, something that people can learn from. It’s not self serving, but we, I think we have mastered that. I think you have to, if you are in the PR world today, messaging, what they call messaging.

But the upside, like I said, is at least we can control it. The downside is you can’t just go to Inc. Magazine and say, hey, can you somebody interview my client? Because I think he’s awesome. That does No, that doesn’t happen. So we do make the best of it. We, we completely control our visuals. I have veterans that I use for things and we combine their pictures and we have an art director. I very have very few staff members. But what we have is a. And we all have some little problem like, like I’m old, one’s got, one’s going through chemo and one has. I said, you know what, together we’re one great PR person.

But it’s true, we have, we have skills they just, the kids don’t have. They just don’t and they will never have. So I, I stayed with three of my original people and I think we’re kicking it for our clients. I mean they love us and I love them.

Meg:
Case in point, Floor Coverings International has been one of Franchoice’s best brands for decades.

Rhonda:
Yes.

Meg:
And the amazing thing about their run is they continue to be running at an epic pace. Bringing in, not only bringing in exceptional new franchisees, but it’s a mature company now that has resales and they’ve got a tremendous training and onboarding program.

So that an existing owner who’s got a reason to sell whatever it might be. So Floor Coverings International is one of my best brands for not only new people coming in, but then also for people I’ve placed who are now looking to exit. They are getting the support they need from Tom Woods Group.

Rhonda:
Yeah. And I will say that they didn’t always do that well with brokers and they had. But the thing I love about Tom Wood, Tom Wood is a person. He’s one in a gajillion. He doesn’t go, well it’s going to be my way it’s going to work and I’ll just keep hiring development people and all that stuff. No, when we don’t do. When he doesn’t do something and it does, I mean he does something and it just doesn’t work. After a year or so he goes okay, this is not working. And he develops another method.

He also gives a lot of autonomy to his people. He doesn’t boss them or he’s not micromanaging at all but he picks the best people. This comes from Charlie Chase the rears of them together. They recycle the greatest people in their in first service brands. So one could be at Serta Pro Painters 1, 2 years, 3 years and I find them at Paul Davis Restoration and I go hey Beth, how are you?

So that’s also a brilliant tactic on their part. They develop these people and you know, you keep the keepers. Hello. That’s the key to life. And if you, and if you have to move or something’s going on in their life, you relocate them to one of your other companies. If and they want to stay, they want a company.

So they built a really good system when they knew they weren’t working well with brokers and not by on purpose but it was just for whatever reason they hired someone who really knew how the language and they, they’ve run with him and he’s done great. And that’s the secret to business. If it doesn’t work, fix it and if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it. Right?

Meg:
Yeah. So the world of journalism actually is where I come from. That’s genetic code. My mom is a nurse but when she was in nursing school she also studied journalism. My brother is in Europe and has been a foreign correspondent for a long time. He was, he was with CNBC for, for quite a while. He isn’t any longer. So journalism is really part and parcel of my genetic code. I love writing, I love crafting with words.

Rhonda:
Do great posts. I can tell you’ve had experience.

Meg:
Thank you, the world of public relations and how a story gets told. It is completely different now. Journalism. True journalists don’t like journalism school anymore because it’s too skewed and away from fact based report. How do you know besides delivering subway sandwiches which by the way I had one for breakfast this morning, it was delicious.

Rhonda:
10 years because I just. Oh, I know there’s processed foods in it well, you know, after you have cancer and you have a weight loss battle, you stop everything. But they always had fabulous. There’s stuff called Lewis Fresh Bread. I mean, Jimmy John’s really copied the concept. I don’t care what he says, because I also. I also help build that company. But so now I’m sure they have wonderful breakfast offerings, is what you’re saying.

Meg:
Well, and I’m totally health conscious for many reasons. Weight management. So we do the breakfast sandwich totally inside the breakfast wrap, I mean, with loaded vegetables, and then I peel off half the bread.

Rhonda:
That’s fabulous. I. I’m just offering. Yeah.

Meg:
We have to maintain. We are fashionistas, and so we must maintain. But back to my question. How do you know when a public relations effort, a PR initiative is working for a client?

Rhonda:
Well, I’ll tell you a funny story is what. Well, not a story, but we’d never. I remember I was writing for USA Today for eight years. We wrote the franchise section under a pseudonymous, but we weren’t supposed to. But it’s. It’s. Well, long over. But Victoria Conti was in charge of that section, and she was a fabulous at woman, and she wanted. She. It wasn’t just that we were friends. It wasn’t about that. She knew we would deliver fabulous stuff, and we did.

And I remember finding out later that one of our clients had sold three. Sold, not just leads, off of a USA Today piece that we wrote but never told us. So there in lies my answer. We know when it’s going well. When we’re state, we’re staying aboard. No client really ever says to me, God, because of you. I will say, Phil Friedman did when he sold McAllister’s Deli. He said, you played a huge role. You made us look very big, and we were very small.

But for the most part, they don’t come and say, you know, because of you. We just sold because they’re so afraid that I might say, hey, let’s renegotiate. And I understand that, but we find out if things work. And plus pickup. I mean, you can track when there’s a lot of pickup. Now, the good news is you can track that completely.

And then what? You know, the thing is, Meg, you can get all the leads in the world, but if they can’t close a deal or if they have issues, you know, they have what’s called Discovery Day, and what they discover isn’t so great. It doesn’t matter how many leads you get. And also, in the first year or two, you really, here’s, here’s another good tip for franchisors. You really have to baby some of the new franchisees.

And I know you get wrapped up in, in launching new ones. You’re not trying to ignore the, the babies, the newbies. But I find out when, because I’m launching all the floor coverings franchisees, I find out they need help well into six months. When I say help, they want guidance. They didn’t to know, oh, here’s how you do a LinkedIn page. And oh, did that. You’re not getting enough calls off our initial launch. Let’s go back and do flooring tips in your market.

You know what I mean? You have to revisit and that goes for every discipline there. But when you’re growing so fast, that’s hard to circle and go around and do that. But that’s, that’s key.

Meg:
So would that be for a franchisor who’s listening, And I get a lot of my audiences, actually franchise companies that are looking to pick up best practices and so.

Rhonda:
As a franchisee, would you like tips for new franchisees.

Meg:
Whether it’s franchisee or franchisor, your observation, your observations seem to be telling me that franchisors need to do a better job longer to nurture their newbies.

Rhonda:
Yeah. Yes. And they have some stars. And I can tell you something else. We can pick out who’s going to be the star in the first two months, whereas they don’t always have the time to stay on it. So I’m just saying things that I think a good PR firm can do for you or an, an in house person. If you want an in house person, they have to be in charge of launch or stay in my, my advice would be to stay on new franchisees for one whole year with all the services you offer and remind them, you know, stay on top of a lot of them.

They’re. It’s very complicated, as you know, to open and launch and there’s a million different little things for them to do and a lot of them have shell shock and they’re like, oh my God, they’re overwhelmed. So what we do is we call ourselves the PR wife or the PR nag. Kind of the same thing. I’m sorry to say, but when we won’t get our survey back to us or whatever, we, I beg for pictures. I go, mike, don’t make me come there and get a picture of you.

You know, we kind of try to make it light and fun for them but we have to get what we need to make them stand out. So staying on top of them for certain things, they falls through the cracks. They’re opening. They have a million different things on their mind. So that would be my advice. And franchisees, you guys have to listen or why did you buy it? Yeah, you know, why did you buy in? If you’re going to fight with them or say what I’m going to do it better or whatever, then be Bob’s cookies. Not, you know, you know what I mean?

Meg:
So right. Go with a brand that, go with a lesser brand then or, or don’t.

Rhonda:
Do it at all brand and have a say in it. You know, make that part of your agreement. Oh, I’m going to. I’ll be your. One of your first franchisees but I want to have a say in how it’s developed that you might get somebody to go for that.

Meg:
Might. So looking forward because we don’t want you to retire and go away. You’re semi retired. You get such a big personality and your point of view. This is what I love about following your posts, is that you are unabashed, unafraid to say what you mean and mean what you say. So looking at the future, what are you, what are you most excited about in the work that you are doing and can continue to do?

Rhonda:
AI like, like AI like everyone else. There’s a firm I helped him start. I’m not taking credit. He’s a genius, a brilliant guy, but he used to work for Success magazine. He was a writer and he just had three young kids. He was barely making enough to meet ends. And I said, Greg, he did every one of my stories, but we developed them together. And this is just part of making contacts in. In those days there was every magazine, Success Entrepreneur, Nation’s business. We did every franchise section because we made good contacts and we gave them good material.

But I talked him into starting his own firm even though it was against my, my better judgment because I knew he was fabulous. But I also knew this guy wrote white papers for dupont. So I, I have to say a little, not beyond franchising, but I knew he could go far in, in whatever he chose. And to now today I am proud to say so that was probably in the 1990s, maybe in 19 whenever in 19 mid-90s, I would say all this. He’s now one of the top 10 PR firms in the world. Copley has bought into his Firm. He has 120 employees. DOC Radar has been a longtime client. I mean this is no Joke.

But why I’m bringing him up is he actually had us. Of course his kid went to Harvard or something. They’re all brilliant in the family and really came out with an AI, a mindset to develop one of the first press release AI programs. This is like three years ago before anybody was, you know, talking about it. And now they are doing one that I, I told him you might win the Nobel Prize for it. And I’m not going to reveal it because it’s so not my place. But it’ll absolutely blow people. And it’s not about journalism. It’s about think Show a Foundation, Steve Spielberg’s show a Foundation how they captured all of the testimony from the, from the Holocaust survivors. It’s like that, but just in everyday life where you might be able to talk to your dad.

So I mean, that’s as much as our bill. It’s not my place. His name is Greg Mintuski. The firm is Gregory FCA in Philadelphia. But AI and because of him, I’m much more excited about it. You know, everybody tried chat. You’ve got to know what’s going on in it. And it’s so much more. We can’t write our stuff. I find it journalistically unethical to write with AI but I’d have it edit my work or punch things up or you know what else, Meg? As you get old, you’ll find out in 20 years you forget a word. I mean, you know, here’s the thing. When you’re a journalist, you can’t forget a word. You know, so I’ll, you know, even though the sources were around nobody, I never said, oh gee, I think I’ll use up the source and never thought about it. But now I might say, how could this sentence sound better or get my message across?

I also think for, for not just PR, but in the rest of the world and whatever business you’re in, if you find the proper program or application. And it doesn’t necessarily going to be taking jobs away from people at all. But think about your FDD. How much could you save? And I’m not trying to take that business away because you always need specialists. But how much and more accurate could you get it with the use of the right AI? Now are we there yet? No, it’s not. It’s not absolutely perfected, we know that. But that’s what I’m most excited about. That’s going to change the world.

Meg:
That’s really interesting to me. As a new adoptee of artificial intelligence, I’m a writer, I love to write. I want it to be authentically. I want my post to be authentically my voice. But like you’re suggesting, putting it into an analyzer, whether it’s chatGPT in order to extract the message with more concise and more concise writing and better verbiage use, as my son says to my little 10 month old granddaughter, use your words, honey. Use your words. Don’t use filler words.

Rhonda:
Right.

Meg:
It’s really frustrating for me to do interviews for this podcast with people who cannot succinctly artic.

Rhonda:
Not everybody has that. That’s why we’re. That’s why you do what you do and I do what I do because we can. But I also can’t screw in a light bulb without a helper, so I don’t try to. But that’s the secret of life. And of course, like I said, I love writing like you do, but I remember I’m so, I’m so obsessive about the opening, the headline and the opening of anything I put out there that I’ve sometimes walked around my house for three days trying to think of it. You’d think I’d lose more weight that way, but you know what I mean. I’d sometimes walk around and go, no, that’s not the right. No. And AI actually can’t do that for me because it’s not in my voice. I have a thought in my head.

So you don’t. For me, I don’t use it. You’re right. For you and I who are, who are natural writers. Of course that’s part of what we love. It would be like if you were a wonderful artist and you said, you know what, I’m not going to do it anymore. I’m going to let AI make my paintings. Well, that’s not who we are. But think about all the people that can help in so many ways in not just in PR or journalism or other things. And I’m just as a concept the way the world is now. It’s the one thing I could think we can all benefit from. But in the right hands, as usual, everything in look at what the Internet. Internet is 50% fabulous and 50% the worst thing that ever happened to anybody. Seriously, in my opinion.

Meg:
I think one of the worst things that happened for social media was the pandemic and the, the rage that started to build and how people attack each other relentlessly.

Rhonda:
Oh, when you don’t person, it’s easy, isn’t it? Yeah, horrible.

Meg:
But to use, use some of these platforms. And so in the world of franchising, it’s so important to put out not only accurate messaging but. But positive messaging. That is very engaging. And do you. Oh, I should ask you about this, the whole Cracker Barrel thing. I wasn’t sure if I was going to go there or not. But what are your thoughts about this whole.

Rhonda:
The minute I saw it, I went first of all, the PR side of me went, big mistake. The practical side of me where they basically said it’s cleaner and it fits better on a cell phone. Well, that’s the world we live in, isn’t it? The Gen Z’s. You know, I hate to say it, the guy next to the barrel, he’s going to be dead soon. In his whole generation. I know that sounds hurtful, but. So they’re trying and even their remake in the Inside is totally not what we old timers or just old fans want to see. The general store was the funnest thing about it.

So they can worry about their logo. Frankly, I think their reap, their remodel is going to be if any, if they get any hurt, pain that that’s what’s going to be more. But they had to gear it towards the next market and they just have to. I think it’s incredibly forward. We’re thinking of them to say we made a mistake. We’re not ready for this new. And that’s what they just did. They announced they’re going to use. Keep using the old one. Well, all they have to do is put this one under wraps until 10 years from now or whatever it becomes acceptable when you do hear from your fans, your audience, your customer base.

So wildly. Yes, do what they ask. They’re telling you right to your face, we don’t like this anymore. And it’s not about woke. Not woke. Those are all horrible terms that are just stupid about nostalgia, really. You know, I understand. And who takes road trips? You got to remember that. Who takes road trips? So those are your people. But I always, I, you know the thing. Bill Maher. You know who Bill Maher is from Real Time. Okay. Well, I have to say he’s hilarious. And one thing he said about it, he goes, well, they took out the two things they had. They had on their logo that mattered. The barrel and frankly the cracker. Because. But and that was comedic and hilarious, but it really had meaning. That’s an old. At least Southern. It’s a feeling of the old general store and days gone by and apparently what we’re telling them is we’re not ready for it to be clean and just nothing. It’s nothing. It’s two words. Just stuck together.

Meg:
Well, and you talk about people who do road trips. We’ve got. I’m just outside of Janesville up here, we’ve got a Cracker Barrel. Pete and I used to go down there not to eat but to sit in the rocking chairs. So we came home with a couple of them. But you have to think about, well, you know, but the people who are going to carry Cracker Barrel forward are sitting in the back seat of the car while their parents are driving and this is where they decide to stop. So to your point, I think generationally nostalgia is important. Is message going to change? Yeah, it will change to some extent.

Rhonda:
Yeah. But I think, I think that’s what they were doing when they originally decided we’ve got to reach the. We’re not getting enough business. You know, Gen zers aren’t big well known for road trips yet. Doesn’t matter. But what I’m saying is the. Even the truck drivers, truckers are huge with that. So you have to stick. And you know what they did? They did something right. So they tested it, they thought it was time. They found out it wasn’t time and then they reverted back, which was very smart. And they did it really quickly, which is what I recommend. If something doesn’t work, get rid of it right away and you don’t have to waste, say, oh my God, we wasted millions. No, you, that’s. You keep. That’s buried somewhere until they’re ready for it and transition to it.

But it’s a. It’s a really good PR tell and sample of, you know, how you have to operate. If you got no customers, you ain’t got no Cracker Barrel. So. Right.

Meg:
That is. That is correct. There’s no reason to be in business if you’re not generating revenue.

Rhonda:
Logo, but no people.

Meg:
Right, Right. And to take their current logo and the brand new one and come up with an iteration or two, that’s a bit more transition, transitory transitioning into that.

Rhonda:
That makes more sense. That’s. You’re exactly right.

Meg:
Aren’t we genius?

Rhonda:
It went from very nostalgic to very stark. Yeah. Yes. It wasn’t clear. The image was never meant to be on phones or cell. That’s called changing with time. But they went to extreme and this is how they found out. Instead of test marketing it, they found out the hard way. But you know what? If they weren’t public, they wouldn’t have been hit so bad in other words, they wouldn’t have made such changes, but they have to. Your stock price can’t fall because you made a bad error.

So they listen to the public. And I think that’s the message in PR. Listen to your public. And that’s all I can tell you. And I would tell anybody that any company, franchising or not.

Meg:
Perfect. That is a great way to end the conversation here. I so appreciate you jumping in quickly. So thanks for sharing your story and your insights on PR today and it’s been a pleasure.

Rhonda:
Yes. Good luck. God bless everybody. Let’s all be safe out there and do what you can for kindness to spread some kindness. Funny coming from me, but I actually do spread a lot.

Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz – Guest: Rhonda Sanderson, “Queen of PR” & Franchise Communications Leader

Meg:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to or. Welcome back to my podcast. It’s the Free Agent with Meg chmitz. I am your lovely host. This discussion is all about free agency and taking control over your financial future.

The mission of my show is to share inspiring conversations with real people who took the leap into self employment, business ownership, franchising, and freedom. From corporate refugees and executives tired of the desk job, to entrepreneurs and investors looking to share camaraderie and inspiration through their own business journey.

My podcast aims to spotlight on real people who stepped into the unknown, took control over their destiny, and became their own boss. Today, I am so delighted and excited to have Rhonda Sanderson, the queen of PR.

Rhonda:
There’s my crippled little finger. Hi, guys.

Meg:
And your puppy, who may stick his little head up periodically. Perfect. This is absolutely an inclusive show. Dogs are welcome.

Rhonda:
Like, I could get rid of them if I wanted to.

Meg:
Right. Well, and I’ve got my 85 pound lab on one foot and then I’ve got the other little one right outside lying in the sun, so.

Rhonda:
Oh, well,

Meg:
we’ll have some extra company here today. So, Rhonda, as the queen of public Relations.

Rhonda:
And Dowager queen now. Okay, that’s good. Thanks.

Meg:
A fellow franchise fashionista.

Rhonda:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Meg:
Yeah, you and I have been around the block a time or two in the world of franchising. Tell my audience about you. When did you get into public relations? Why did you get into it? And. And then we’ll talk about what it really means, how it functions and where it is.

Rhonda:
Now, all good questions and frankly, if as a PR person, if I looked at my own story, I’d say, well, that’s a good story. But like, no offense, who cares? We also know that nobody cares about you or your. You know, when I used to tell clients, you know, they say proud. I said, the only person proud of you is your mother. So just make sure you’re just being candid. Right. I was married to an athlete. We’re talking I’m a hundred, so I look good for. I only look out 98, but we’re talking 1981. I kid married to a professional athlete. We had a terrible tragedy. We lost A son. It resulted in horrible things, unfortunately, as you can imagine, and including a divorce.

When I came back to Chicago, I was living in Canada. That’s where all hockey players live. And when I came back, my best friend, who was Miss December of 1979. So we’re dating ourselves, but now we can actually date other people too. But she had a PR firm. It was a 404 man office, and she was using them. She had won some contest in Chicago, the Eyes of Chicago. So she said, I want to introduce you to, to my PR guy, because you’d be perfect. You know, you have a journalism background. You have the gift for gab. Big time, you know,

Meg:
Big time.

Rhonda:

We did and we did. And that grew into a bigger agency. Sherry Fishman ended up. Her name was Sherry Cannell. She ended up becoming also somebody from that agency. I remember being going through training with Diane Trago, one of our. One of our other queens who’s passed since then. And Sherry was our favorite, her favorite little, you know, not even an intern. She came, she came aboard right after school. And also, frankly, this is an aside. She had a tragic car accident six weeks after she came to the firm, sadly, and it was very serious.

And I remember our cheap boss. I won’t even mention to him because he’s passed, but everybody knows who he was. He said, I can’t afford to have this new girl on my payroll. She’s going to be out for months. And I said, well, her dad’s a big litigator, so if I were you, I’d be keeping her on and we’ll figure it out. And I always say to Sherry, I saved your job. You just didn’t know it. And she goes, I don’t. Thank you or not. And I said, yeah, I get it.

But anyway, she, as we know, she has since gone on to do great success with her husband Brad. And. But I was there before them. And I turned what this firm we came out of had one client that came in, or one would be prospect that came in and they said, blah, blah, blah, and we’re going to grow like McDonald’s. And we were doing just food products or whatever was around Chicago restaurants mostly. And he said, do you know anything about franchising? And I just kicked my boss under the table, like, of course we do, you know, and that’s how that started.

And it turned out later on a few clients later, after we tested like a system to get him. He wanted to go out on the road and tell his story. We did in those days, you did media tours. No tech, no phones. No. You called and cold pitched over the phone, oh, I got this great guest and he’s going the way of McDonald’s. You know, that’s. That was a big pitch that. No, it’s like, what, what does that mean? And we built up a little system. Radio, tv, main paper or business journal. And we would send these guys and let me tell you, the airfare, I’ll never forget the airfare to Columbus, Ohio, was $600 then. And the guy was kind of like, wow, I don’t know. So we had to, we had to make sure we got these interviews.

Meg:
Yeah.

Rhonda:
Then later down the road, we learned that after we set up about 20 of those for different. We were getting more franchise people and the reporters were catching on that we were just fishing for leads. But they still did it. Sometimes they said, okay, we’re going to do all the interviews and when they sell their first one here, call us. And then we knew, oh, man, we have to now evolve into another method so they could get leads.

So this is how it evolved. And of course, one of them ended up being Fred DeLuca from Subway.

Meg:
Sure.

Rhonda:
And we would send sandwiches to all the radio stations. In those days, there was no fear of poisoning or crazy stuff. And, you know, we thought he’d get, you know, 20, 30 calls, and in one market, he got 1,000 leads.

Meg:
Wow.

Rhonda:
And that’s how we knew that we were onto something. But so was he. This, you know, this, you know, $7,500 might be even less for franchise fee. And people thought, wow, I can get in business for myself. So that’s how we started.

When I broke off from this firm, I got pregnant again with my second husband. And I thought, I don’t know if I want all this stress. So I went off on my own, and we did it in a friendly manner. And I took a few clients with me, and I decided to specialize only in franchising because that’s really how I kind of developed the program for it.

And I thought, well, there seems to be a lot of people who could use this. And that’s how that started. So that was in. I left him in 1983. So I started. Yeah, around 1983, I think. I. I really started. And then 1986, I. I started my own firm.

Meg:
Good for you. So, you’re the epitome of a free agent.

Rhonda:
Yeah, the epitome of it. And it was little, believe me, but, you know, in those days, four clients was Fine for, you know, I had very reasonable fees, but I had what they called the SNS method, that was the name of the firm. And we had already gotten a little well known from helping build Subway.

So to leave and to say that Sherry also worked on Subway when she was there after I left. So that is, I will say that if you’re going to get trained in franchise PR, that was the greatest company to start your experiments with, or shall we say your methods, your methodology. He was great about it. We would send him on tours. Like I said, he was charismatic. Interview, you know, Fred was good looking. He sounded great on the radio. He so much passion for his product.

So we send him to like the biggest radio station in Cincinnati. Now that sounds small, but it covered nine states. You know, a tremendous, you know, venue then. And we just load the station with sandwiches and all over town. And the paper sometimes picked it up because of that giant radio show. So it was a spiraling, snowballing effect.

And that’s what’s been used, I want to say, for years. Even Sherry and I both still use our fishermen, and I both still use the initial methodology that we created. Okay. And of course it’s had to evolve tremendously because now there’s not even reporters. But we’ve managed to do it. And I had a 60 clients, 20 employees at one point.

And I got breast cancer in 2009. And I have to tell you, I’m pretty brave, but it slowed me down. I had to go to chemo. My girls, I’d come back into the office and they’d all have blonde wigs on. They all went blonde wigs to be supportive because I was bald. It was both touching, but stressful, the whole thing. I came right from chemo, right to the office, never stopped. And it’s kind of better for you to just stay busy like that, I think. But on the third day after, I’d be violently ill and I’d have to stay home.

And you know what? My staff picked it up for me, you know, so it was a lovely experience and a lovely time. You know who was even better than my employees? My clients. We had a few horrible terror stories, but very few in ratio with what there are out there. I mean, 90% of my clients I would take back today. They’re right.

Don’t you find that with franchisors, that kind of salt of the earth, 80, you know, not con men, you know, looking for that is that element shows up now and then in franchising. But the average person. I made such great friends. They were the most wonderful normal people, I mean for the most part very grounded.

Two men in a truck built them from a very small, not me alone but their team. But with this PR I think they had I used to call them one man in a van because they were literally Mary Ellen Sheets. Her kids went off to school and she kept answering the phone. And that’s how they were just doing it for like college money, high school money when they went out, you know the story.

But that was a great story to tell and look at them now and they’ve had. They had a wonderful team and support. And in other words they became a fabulous franchisor too, which is of course you have to be. PR can help only so much. But if you’re. If you don’t have it or your product or your service is terrible or your leadership is terrible, it’s over. You know that you’ve been in that arena. So that’s how it all started.

Meg:
Excellent. I have been involved with some bad companies personally. I started with Great Clips which was a fabulous experience and expanded to five locations there.

Rhonda:
Well your hair looks great. That’s all it really matters. Right. But then to feel good. We know Ricardo Montovan said that. Okay.

Meg:
Yes indeed. And I agree with you the world of franchising. It all starts with an entrepreneur who had an idea and had had some curiosity around whether this thing could really grow. And so your expertise has been in helping some of these smaller franchise companies realize their dream of expansion.

How has, so PR stands for public relations and that can be positive. Let’s blow a great message out there. It could be in response to something that’s negative. We need to do damage control.

Rhonda:
Most important, actually more important than the positive. But we’ll will go on.

Meg:
So, what is your firm doing these days that’s different from how public relations used to be?

Rhonda:
Well, I wouldn’t say I. And you know you’re. You’re so generous to call it a firm. I’m really semi retired. I kept four clients the ones that frankly I’ve been the longest time they asked me not to go and what could be better And I don’t mind naming them for most of first service brands. Charlie Chase who to me is the ultimate Tom Wood. As you know from Floor Coverings International.

Tom and Charlie and I started with Serta Pro Painters when they had like two painters. So we’ve been growing together since like for sure early 90s. And you know we Built this tremendous relationship. And Phil Friedman is that one, one person that’s outside of it. And he is, was McAllister’s Deli. That’s my one restaurant. He is now Salsaritas Fresh Mexican Grill.

But what this all has in common and why we all stayed as we were totally an integrated team. And I also adored them and respected them as leaders. So I never felt guilty about somebody buying a franchise, which I had in the past on some companies. I know you have too. Yes, I never felt guilty because I knew what great leaders they were and the person was in great hands. Even if they couldn’t make it, they would help them out. Do you see what I mean? You know what I’m talking about, Meg. You understand all of this.

So I never had a. I kept these four, the four in total. And I, I do an occasional, shall we say, project for people and especially some Chicagoans who know about me. But all in all, my allegiance is to these Charlie Chase’s brands and Phil Friedman Salsaritas.

And how has it changed? Well, at first I hated how it changed because reporters started disappearing, as you well know, Media started disappearing. And it wasn’t like overnight. I think people thought it was, but it was definitely in a five, six, seven year period. Now we just, we just witnessed. I just got a Google alert on Newswire Media or. Oh, no, News media, somebody. Anyway, they had 14 papers, the little local ones you always want because they’re. We call multiple publishers. So if you have a territory of 20 markets, they, they probably had a paper that covered it well, they’ve closed down and just one of the latest ones.

So the difference is we now. I try to find the upside because you have to. So we now control the message more. When we used to get. Send people out in interviews, the downside was lots of mistakes from reporters, lots of misquotes. I mean normally it was a fabulous, like entrepreneur, something fabulous experience. And you, you’ve got hundreds of leads and you got a good story out of it. On the back side, even the Wall Street Journal made typos and not typos, but, you know, got their facts wrong.

So when everything kind of changed over and I realized, I realized I had to be in charge of all the content. I was like, is this credible? Is this. Well, now what I realize is there’s completely approved content. There’s no mistakes going in, no misquotes. So when we do pieces. And also I have a staff member who’s an accredited journalist with neighborhood papers. I mean, you have to really go through testing. You just can’t go in and say, hi, I’m putting inside my bulletin board.

So it’s really finding ways to get the message out. You can’t make it. And just a little tip for anybody that’s listening, don’t make it a sales or marketing message. Make it a factual message. PR is different from marketing is we’re the best, we’re the biggest. And PR is here’s the obstacles we overcame and here’s where we are now. You know, something that people can learn from. It’s not self serving, but we, I think we have mastered that. I think you have to, if you are in the PR world today, messaging, what they call messaging.

But the upside, like I said, is at least we can control it. The downside is you can’t just go to Inc. Magazine and say, hey, can you somebody interview my client? Because I think he’s awesome. That does No, that doesn’t happen. So we do make the best of it. We, we completely control our visuals. I have veterans that I use for things and we combine their pictures and we have an art director. I very have very few staff members. But what we have is a. And we all have some little problem like, like I’m old, one’s got, one’s going through chemo and one has. I said, you know what, together we’re one great PR person.

But it’s true, we have, we have skills they just, the kids don’t have. They just don’t and they will never have. So I, I stayed with three of my original people and I think we’re kicking it for our clients. I mean they love us and I love them.

Meg:
Case in point, Floor Coverings International has been one of Franchoice’s best brands for decades.

Rhonda:
Yes.

Meg:
And the amazing thing about their run is they continue to be running at an epic pace. Bringing in, not only bringing in exceptional new franchisees, but it’s a mature company now that has resales and they’ve got a tremendous training and onboarding program.

So that an existing owner who’s got a reason to sell whatever it might be. So Floor Coverings International is one of my best brands for not only new people coming in, but then also for people I’ve placed who are now looking to exit. They are getting the support they need from Tom Woods Group.

Rhonda:
Yeah. And I will say that they didn’t always do that well with brokers and they had. But the thing I love about Tom Wood, Tom Wood is a person. He’s one in a gajillion. He doesn’t go, well it’s going to be my way it’s going to work and I’ll just keep hiring development people and all that stuff. No, when we don’t do. When he doesn’t do something and it does, I mean he does something and it just doesn’t work. After a year or so he goes okay, this is not working. And he develops another method.

He also gives a lot of autonomy to his people. He doesn’t boss them or he’s not micromanaging at all but he picks the best people. This comes from Charlie Chase the rears of them together. They recycle the greatest people in their in first service brands. So one could be at Serta Pro Painters 1, 2 years, 3 years and I find them at Paul Davis Restoration and I go hey Beth, how are you?

So that’s also a brilliant tactic on their part. They develop these people and you know, you keep the keepers. Hello. That’s the key to life. And if you, and if you have to move or something’s going on in their life, you relocate them to one of your other companies. If and they want to stay, they want a company.

So they built a really good system when they knew they weren’t working well with brokers and not by on purpose but it was just for whatever reason they hired someone who really knew how the language and they, they’ve run with him and he’s done great. And that’s the secret to business. If it doesn’t work, fix it and if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it. Right?

Meg:
Yeah. So the world of journalism actually is where I come from. That’s genetic code. My mom is a nurse but when she was in nursing school she also studied journalism. My brother is in Europe and has been a foreign correspondent for a long time. He was, he was with CNBC for, for quite a while. He isn’t any longer. So journalism is really part and parcel of my genetic code. I love writing, I love crafting with words.

Rhonda:
Do great posts. I can tell you’ve had experience.

Meg:
Thank you, the world of public relations and how a story gets told. It is completely different now. Journalism. True journalists don’t like journalism school anymore because it’s too skewed and away from fact based report. How do you know besides delivering subway sandwiches which by the way I had one for breakfast this morning, it was delicious.

Rhonda:
10 years because I just. Oh, I know there’s processed foods in it well, you know, after you have cancer and you have a weight loss battle, you stop everything. But they always had fabulous. There’s stuff called Lewis Fresh Bread. I mean, Jimmy John’s really copied the concept. I don’t care what he says, because I also. I also help build that company. But so now I’m sure they have wonderful breakfast offerings, is what you’re saying.

Meg:
Well, and I’m totally health conscious for many reasons. Weight management. So we do the breakfast sandwich totally inside the breakfast wrap, I mean, with loaded vegetables, and then I peel off half the bread.

Rhonda:
That’s fabulous. I. I’m just offering. Yeah.

Meg:
We have to maintain. We are fashionistas, and so we must maintain. But back to my question. How do you know when a public relations effort, a PR initiative is working for a client?

Rhonda:
Well, I’ll tell you a funny story is what. Well, not a story, but we’d never. I remember I was writing for USA Today for eight years. We wrote the franchise section under a pseudonymous, but we weren’t supposed to. But it’s. It’s. Well, long over. But Victoria Conti was in charge of that section, and she was a fabulous at woman, and she wanted. She. It wasn’t just that we were friends. It wasn’t about that. She knew we would deliver fabulous stuff, and we did.

And I remember finding out later that one of our clients had sold three. Sold, not just leads, off of a USA Today piece that we wrote but never told us. So there in lies my answer. We know when it’s going well. When we’re state, we’re staying aboard. No client really ever says to me, God, because of you. I will say, Phil Friedman did when he sold McAllister’s Deli. He said, you played a huge role. You made us look very big, and we were very small.

But for the most part, they don’t come and say, you know, because of you. We just sold because they’re so afraid that I might say, hey, let’s renegotiate. And I understand that, but we find out if things work. And plus pickup. I mean, you can track when there’s a lot of pickup. Now, the good news is you can track that completely.

And then what? You know, the thing is, Meg, you can get all the leads in the world, but if they can’t close a deal or if they have issues, you know, they have what’s called Discovery Day, and what they discover isn’t so great. It doesn’t matter how many leads you get. And also, in the first year or two, you really, here’s, here’s another good tip for franchisors. You really have to baby some of the new franchisees.

And I know you get wrapped up in, in launching new ones. You’re not trying to ignore the, the babies, the newbies. But I find out when, because I’m launching all the floor coverings franchisees, I find out they need help well into six months. When I say help, they want guidance. They didn’t to know, oh, here’s how you do a LinkedIn page. And oh, did that. You’re not getting enough calls off our initial launch. Let’s go back and do flooring tips in your market.

You know what I mean? You have to revisit and that goes for every discipline there. But when you’re growing so fast, that’s hard to circle and go around and do that. But that’s, that’s key.

Meg:
So would that be for a franchisor who’s listening, And I get a lot of my audiences, actually franchise companies that are looking to pick up best practices and so.

Rhonda:
As a franchisee, would you like tips for new franchisees.

Meg:
Whether it’s franchisee or franchisor, your observation, your observations seem to be telling me that franchisors need to do a better job longer to nurture their newbies.

Rhonda:
Yeah. Yes. And they have some stars. And I can tell you something else. We can pick out who’s going to be the star in the first two months, whereas they don’t always have the time to stay on it. So I’m just saying things that I think a good PR firm can do for you or an, an in house person. If you want an in house person, they have to be in charge of launch or stay in my, my advice would be to stay on new franchisees for one whole year with all the services you offer and remind them, you know, stay on top of a lot of them.

They’re. It’s very complicated, as you know, to open and launch and there’s a million different little things for them to do and a lot of them have shell shock and they’re like, oh my God, they’re overwhelmed. So what we do is we call ourselves the PR wife or the PR nag. Kind of the same thing. I’m sorry to say, but when we won’t get our survey back to us or whatever, we, I beg for pictures. I go, mike, don’t make me come there and get a picture of you.

You know, we kind of try to make it light and fun for them but we have to get what we need to make them stand out. So staying on top of them for certain things, they falls through the cracks. They’re opening. They have a million different things on their mind. So that would be my advice. And franchisees, you guys have to listen or why did you buy it? Yeah, you know, why did you buy in? If you’re going to fight with them or say what I’m going to do it better or whatever, then be Bob’s cookies. Not, you know, you know what I mean?

Meg:
So right. Go with a brand that, go with a lesser brand then or, or don’t.

Rhonda:
Do it at all brand and have a say in it. You know, make that part of your agreement. Oh, I’m going to. I’ll be your. One of your first franchisees but I want to have a say in how it’s developed that you might get somebody to go for that.

Meg:
Might. So looking forward because we don’t want you to retire and go away. You’re semi retired. You get such a big personality and your point of view. This is what I love about following your posts, is that you are unabashed, unafraid to say what you mean and mean what you say. So looking at the future, what are you, what are you most excited about in the work that you are doing and can continue to do?

Rhonda:
AI like, like AI like everyone else. There’s a firm I helped him start. I’m not taking credit. He’s a genius, a brilliant guy, but he used to work for Success magazine. He was a writer and he just had three young kids. He was barely making enough to meet ends. And I said, Greg, he did every one of my stories, but we developed them together. And this is just part of making contacts in. In those days there was every magazine, Success Entrepreneur, Nation’s business. We did every franchise section because we made good contacts and we gave them good material.

But I talked him into starting his own firm even though it was against my, my better judgment because I knew he was fabulous. But I also knew this guy wrote white papers for dupont. So I, I have to say a little, not beyond franchising, but I knew he could go far in, in whatever he chose. And to now today I am proud to say so that was probably in the 1990s, maybe in 19 whenever in 19 mid-90s, I would say all this. He’s now one of the top 10 PR firms in the world. Copley has bought into his Firm. He has 120 employees. DOC Radar has been a longtime client. I mean this is no Joke.

But why I’m bringing him up is he actually had us. Of course his kid went to Harvard or something. They’re all brilliant in the family and really came out with an AI, a mindset to develop one of the first press release AI programs. This is like three years ago before anybody was, you know, talking about it. And now they are doing one that I, I told him you might win the Nobel Prize for it. And I’m not going to reveal it because it’s so not my place. But it’ll absolutely blow people. And it’s not about journalism. It’s about think Show a Foundation, Steve Spielberg’s show a Foundation how they captured all of the testimony from the, from the Holocaust survivors. It’s like that, but just in everyday life where you might be able to talk to your dad.

So I mean, that’s as much as our bill. It’s not my place. His name is Greg Mintuski. The firm is Gregory FCA in Philadelphia. But AI and because of him, I’m much more excited about it. You know, everybody tried chat. You’ve got to know what’s going on in it. And it’s so much more. We can’t write our stuff. I find it journalistically unethical to write with AI but I’d have it edit my work or punch things up or you know what else, Meg? As you get old, you’ll find out in 20 years you forget a word. I mean, you know, here’s the thing. When you’re a journalist, you can’t forget a word. You know, so I’ll, you know, even though the sources were around nobody, I never said, oh gee, I think I’ll use up the source and never thought about it. But now I might say, how could this sentence sound better or get my message across?

I also think for, for not just PR, but in the rest of the world and whatever business you’re in, if you find the proper program or application. And it doesn’t necessarily going to be taking jobs away from people at all. But think about your FDD. How much could you save? And I’m not trying to take that business away because you always need specialists. But how much and more accurate could you get it with the use of the right AI? Now are we there yet? No, it’s not. It’s not absolutely perfected, we know that. But that’s what I’m most excited about. That’s going to change the world.

Meg:
That’s really interesting to me. As a new adoptee of artificial intelligence, I’m a writer, I love to write. I want it to be authentically. I want my post to be authentically my voice. But like you’re suggesting, putting it into an analyzer, whether it’s chatGPT in order to extract the message with more concise and more concise writing and better verbiage use, as my son says to my little 10 month old granddaughter, use your words, honey. Use your words. Don’t use filler words.

Rhonda:
Right.

Meg:
It’s really frustrating for me to do interviews for this podcast with people who cannot succinctly artic.

Rhonda:
Not everybody has that. That’s why we’re. That’s why you do what you do and I do what I do because we can. But I also can’t screw in a light bulb without a helper, so I don’t try to. But that’s the secret of life. And of course, like I said, I love writing like you do, but I remember I’m so, I’m so obsessive about the opening, the headline and the opening of anything I put out there that I’ve sometimes walked around my house for three days trying to think of it. You’d think I’d lose more weight that way, but you know what I mean. I’d sometimes walk around and go, no, that’s not the right. No. And AI actually can’t do that for me because it’s not in my voice. I have a thought in my head.

So you don’t. For me, I don’t use it. You’re right. For you and I who are, who are natural writers. Of course that’s part of what we love. It would be like if you were a wonderful artist and you said, you know what, I’m not going to do it anymore. I’m going to let AI make my paintings. Well, that’s not who we are. But think about all the people that can help in so many ways in not just in PR or journalism or other things. And I’m just as a concept the way the world is now. It’s the one thing I could think we can all benefit from. But in the right hands, as usual, everything in look at what the Internet. Internet is 50% fabulous and 50% the worst thing that ever happened to anybody. Seriously, in my opinion.

Meg:
I think one of the worst things that happened for social media was the pandemic and the, the rage that started to build and how people attack each other relentlessly.

Rhonda:
Oh, when you don’t person, it’s easy, isn’t it? Yeah, horrible.

Meg:
But to use, use some of these platforms. And so in the world of franchising, it’s so important to put out not only accurate messaging but. But positive messaging. That is very engaging. And do you. Oh, I should ask you about this, the whole Cracker Barrel thing. I wasn’t sure if I was going to go there or not. But what are your thoughts about this whole.

Rhonda:
The minute I saw it, I went first of all, the PR side of me went, big mistake. The practical side of me where they basically said it’s cleaner and it fits better on a cell phone. Well, that’s the world we live in, isn’t it? The Gen Z’s. You know, I hate to say it, the guy next to the barrel, he’s going to be dead soon. In his whole generation. I know that sounds hurtful, but. So they’re trying and even their remake in the Inside is totally not what we old timers or just old fans want to see. The general store was the funnest thing about it.

So they can worry about their logo. Frankly, I think their reap, their remodel is going to be if any, if they get any hurt, pain that that’s what’s going to be more. But they had to gear it towards the next market and they just have to. I think it’s incredibly forward. We’re thinking of them to say we made a mistake. We’re not ready for this new. And that’s what they just did. They announced they’re going to use. Keep using the old one. Well, all they have to do is put this one under wraps until 10 years from now or whatever it becomes acceptable when you do hear from your fans, your audience, your customer base.

So wildly. Yes, do what they ask. They’re telling you right to your face, we don’t like this anymore. And it’s not about woke. Not woke. Those are all horrible terms that are just stupid about nostalgia, really. You know, I understand. And who takes road trips? You got to remember that. Who takes road trips? So those are your people. But I always, I, you know the thing. Bill Maher. You know who Bill Maher is from Real Time. Okay. Well, I have to say he’s hilarious. And one thing he said about it, he goes, well, they took out the two things they had. They had on their logo that mattered. The barrel and frankly the cracker. Because. But and that was comedic and hilarious, but it really had meaning. That’s an old. At least Southern. It’s a feeling of the old general store and days gone by and apparently what we’re telling them is we’re not ready for it to be clean and just nothing. It’s nothing. It’s two words. Just stuck together.

Meg:
Well, and you talk about people who do road trips. We’ve got. I’m just outside of Janesville up here, we’ve got a Cracker Barrel. Pete and I used to go down there not to eat but to sit in the rocking chairs. So we came home with a couple of them. But you have to think about, well, you know, but the people who are going to carry Cracker Barrel forward are sitting in the back seat of the car while their parents are driving and this is where they decide to stop. So to your point, I think generationally nostalgia is important. Is message going to change? Yeah, it will change to some extent.

Rhonda:
Yeah. But I think, I think that’s what they were doing when they originally decided we’ve got to reach the. We’re not getting enough business. You know, Gen zers aren’t big well known for road trips yet. Doesn’t matter. But what I’m saying is the. Even the truck drivers, truckers are huge with that. So you have to stick. And you know what they did? They did something right. So they tested it, they thought it was time. They found out it wasn’t time and then they reverted back, which was very smart. And they did it really quickly, which is what I recommend. If something doesn’t work, get rid of it right away and you don’t have to waste, say, oh my God, we wasted millions. No, you, that’s. You keep. That’s buried somewhere until they’re ready for it and transition to it.

But it’s a. It’s a really good PR tell and sample of, you know, how you have to operate. If you got no customers, you ain’t got no Cracker Barrel. So. Right.

Meg:
That is. That is correct. There’s no reason to be in business if you’re not generating revenue.

Rhonda:
Logo, but no people.

Meg:
Right, Right. And to take their current logo and the brand new one and come up with an iteration or two, that’s a bit more transition, transitory transitioning into that.

Rhonda:
That makes more sense. That’s. You’re exactly right.

Meg:
Aren’t we genius?

Rhonda:
It went from very nostalgic to very stark. Yeah. Yes. It wasn’t clear. The image was never meant to be on phones or cell. That’s called changing with time. But they went to extreme and this is how they found out. Instead of test marketing it, they found out the hard way. But you know what? If they weren’t public, they wouldn’t have been hit so bad in other words, they wouldn’t have made such changes, but they have to. Your stock price can’t fall because you made a bad error.

So they listen to the public. And I think that’s the message in PR. Listen to your public. And that’s all I can tell you. And I would tell anybody that any company, franchising or not.

Meg:
Perfect. That is a great way to end the conversation here. I so appreciate you jumping in quickly. So thanks for sharing your story and your insights on PR today and it’s been a pleasure.

Rhonda:
Yes. Good luck. God bless everybody. Let’s all be safe out there and do what you can for kindness to spread some kindness. Funny coming from me, but I actually do spread a lot.

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