From Corporate to Soap Shop: One Woman’s Journey Into Franchise Ownership

Meg Schmitz:
Well, hello everyone and welcome to or welcome back to my podcast, the Free Agent, where the discussion is all about free agency and taking control over your future. My name is Meg Schmitz, and if you’ve been following along, we are in season six. The mission of my show has always been to share inspiring conversations with real people who took the leap into self employment, business ownership, franchising and freedom, from corporate refugees and executives tired of the desk job.

To entrepreneurs and investors looking to share camaraderie and inspiration through their own business journey. My podcast aims a spotlight on real people who stepped into the unknown, took control over their destiny and became their own boss. Today I have the pleasure of having my friend Nancy Justman on. Nancy and I met, I don’t even remember how many years ago now. It was through Elisa Rohr, our attorney.

Nancy is a force of nature in Brookfield, Wisconsin. And so I’m delighted that you were able to make time for me today. Nancy, welcome to the show.

Nancy Justman:
Thank you for having me. I’m excited.

Meg:
Well, I’m excited to have you because on so many levels, as a businesswoman, you’re a take charge kind of a girl and always have been. Now, you and I have also sat at Cooper’s Hawk having wine and talked a little bit about tear in the beer, tear in the wine kind of things that.

Nancy: 
Absolutely. 

Meg:

Every day is not a cakewalk. But I don’t know where you would like to start talking about your journey into deciding to buy a franchise. That was before I entered into the picture. So why don’t you tell a bit of background on who you are and what made you take a look at franchising in the first place?

Nancy:
Well, as Meg said, I work in Brookfield, Wisconsin. I have always kind of really geared myself towards nonprofit work. Not necessarily by design, it just happened to work out that way. So I’ve got a lot of experience with event management. I ran an exposition center.

I’ve been a marketing director for a nonprofit, and then most recently and currently now I am the president and CEO of Visit Brookfield. So we are the convention and visitors bureau. Really, our mission is to increase, well, exactly our mission is to increase consumer expenditure to all things hospitality related in the Brookfield area.

So specifically, we work a lot with our hotels. One of my biggest projects ever to date was building the Brookfield Conference center, which I’m very, very proud of. That was a project that I actually used for my master’s degree I have an MBA and while I was working on that, that was my thesis project to, you know, basically state that you can build a brand new conference center in a suburban market and be successful as opposed to always trying to flip, you know, maybe an older community or downtown area back into something successful. So, you know, the goal was really to take something that’s already successful and just continue to grow that success.

So, you know, that, that was really my project. completed that project, not a big secret. I’ve said this to anyone who would listen. You know, doing that project was much like having a baby. You know, you, you work on this project, you work on it, you know, grow it, you get it to where you want it. But with a baby, you typically get to raise it and, you know, kind of oversee everything.

And so this project was different in that I, you know, got to be involved in literally picking out every aspect of it, helping to design, you know, every inch of the building and then basically turning it over to someone else to, to raise or to run. And so that was, that was really difficult for me. I would say I’m not a control freak, although my husband and children would probably argue and say, yes, I am. So that was difficult. So really I really was thinking about, you know, potentially what is my, what is my future look like and how long do I stay in my current organization?

What’s the next step? You know, at the time of looking at a franchise, I had kind of figured maybe this is, you know, the biggest thing I’ll ever do at Visit Brookfield and, you know, what’s my next step and is it time maybe to, you know, look at other options? 

Meg:
And your office is right there. So you’re seeing the day to day activities. I have been there many times for conferences. It’s a beautiful center. It is a big independent project. So what made you think about a franchise as someone who’s been. That’s a very entrepreneurial expedition to do what you did with the conference center. So what tell me about your thought process to navigate into franchising.

Nancy:
I’ll be honest, I really was just kind of looking at something. I had a really small little side business as well that I had, you know, handmade side business that I was successful at. I didn’t really see that as a long term strategy though, for, you know, it’s kind of a fad project, I would say. So I didn’t see that as a long term strategy for, hey, I’m gonna open my own store and open multiple stores.

So I don’t know I will be honest. I think I was just kind of dabbling. I think that, you know, one thing that I know about myself after all these years, going back to reporting to one individual is probably not in my DNA. You know, I’ve reported to a board of directors for, gosh, 30 years, probably, or darn close to 30 years. So I know that, you know, being my own boss or, you know, working with the board of directors is where I want to be as opposed to going back, just, you know, being whatever, just having one direct boss.

I think I’m pretty. In fact, let me rephrase. I think I’m really good at strategy and being strategic and I’m kind of that 50,000 foot ceiling person. 

Meg:

Yeah. 

Nancy:

So I feel like franchise for me was a great step, but I really wanted to also be involved in a franchise that was potentially still kind of growing and on the cusp of, you know, becoming like the next greatest thing.

I certainly didn’t want to own, and this is no disrespect to any franchise whatsoever, but I didn’t want to own a McDonald’s where it’s very cookie cutter for you to say, like, you know, this is the toilet paper you’re going to order. I really wanted the idea that there is some autonomy and that I could still put my own mark on my business. So that was, you know, important to me.

Meg:
That is such a big topic that I talk to my candidates about who are coming out of maybe a sales organization where they’re beaten up all the time for their sales dollars and next year’s quota is going to be that much bigger. The corporate refugees who are coming out saying, I want to be the boss. I’m tired of reporting to the boss. Creating a culture that is really your own culture. I can see it when I come to visit you in the store. And what I really liked about the tie in with the brand that you ended up purchasing is that it took not only your business brain, but also the creativity that you had built into your sign and craft business and married it together and you were able to open in Brookfield.

Nancy:
Yeah, it really. It allowed me to do all of those things. I mean, I really, you know, as you know, we talked about a lot of different concepts and, you know many of them, while they’re great concepts, they just weren’t really ringing, you know, for me, like, they weren’t resonating, you know, and in fact, I feel like we had a conversation where I said, ah, Meg, you know, I just. I enjoy you so much. I just don’t know that we’re going to find the right concept.

But, you know, let’s continue to meet at Cooper’s Hawk and, just have some wine and talk business in general. And I remember the day you called and you said, I finally found the one for you. And I said, well, tell me more. So, you know, I really, I love the idea that it’s handmade. I love that it’s good for, you know, you and the environment.

The other thing that really swayed me was the ability to have that strong customer service and to provide people who are shopping at the store an experience. So as opposed to you come in, you buy it, you leave. You know, I really like the idea that it’s an experience. And I think that for me was really a critical piece. 

Meg:
And that was fun to do a VIP event.

And now that we’re talking today, not only do I need to do another one, but I’ve got an idea for you to represent over in Tosa in my new business to get some.

Nancy:
Oh, super excited, 

Meg:
Get some awareness over there. What I love about the brand that you’re with is that it is an experiential retail concept that is where the products are made locally instead of being shipped in from somewhere else with not local ingredients and certainly not local. You’ve got your family involved and that was really fun for me to see Herb, get your husband, get involved, seeing him in the store as well as your daughter. Is more than one daughter involved?

Nancy:
Just my youngest was involved at the start. She sense kind of enhancing her own career. So she’s really stepped away. But it gave me that chance for her to come in and help me start and now train some really high quality people that I’ve been very, very lucky. In a market that it’s really hard to find good people. I have been very blessed to find really good staff people at this point for my stores.

Meg:
I think for the listener to know Nancy’s standards are not the average bear standards and they’re not mine either. We have both come from a background. We’re old enough. We’ve worked with people who are pretenders is when you. When you get the people who are really willing to work, that’s what makes it so easy to see the other ones were really not your people.

And so you’ve been. I’m delighted to hear that you’ve been able to find great people who are sticking. Now you’ve opened your second location, is that right?

Nancy:
Correct.

Meg:
Have you been able to migrate anyone from location number One over to two to help with managerial scheduling?

Nancy:
I have. 

Meg:

Oh, good, good. 

Nancy:

I have an individual who I won’t call her out by name because she’s a very shy gal, but you would never know it if you walked into the store. She’s extremely personable and happy to say that all of my five star reviews on Google have been about her, not even about me. So I think part of, you are part of the opportunity to own a business is to be able to bring people with you and to, you know, take someone who maybe doesn’t know what they want to do or, you allow them to grow in a position.

So I think that was part of my other interesting piece that, you know, retail is a different world.

Right. And having worked for Visit Brookfield, I’ve seen the changes in retail over the past several years. Obviously, Covid has changed us for good with retail, but I also think it’s made us more savvy consumers. Right. When we do step outside and we’re going to go to a store, we’re going to go to a store that, that we feel good about or that we feel good in or that it’s an experience for us, as opposed to before COVID we were like, well, whatever, we’re just going shopping or you know, what the story is?

I think people are a little more savvy with that because honestly, you can order it on Amazon and have it delivered to your house. So why am I leaving my house? It’s got to be a good reason, right? So I think, you know, owning a business also, you know, I’m all about girl power. So the idea that I can help, you know, young women, whether those be, you know, whether that be a high school student who’s just starting off, whether that be, you know, someone who’s just not sure what career route they want, or whether that be an amazing retired person who is, you know, just looking for a few hours and just wants to work with the public.

So, you know, I’m happy to say that, like I said, super lucky, but really with the ability to help people and to help them grow is also a really fun part about owning a business.

Meg:
Totally. But the flip side of that is, and you and I have talked about this, the buck stops here. The buck stops with us. And I hold up my little silver bullet because it’s a reminder that every day we are the solution. There’s no silver bullet. It’s us.  

Nancy:

I love it.

Meg:

So I remember when you got your shipment of fixtures and furnishings and what a Disappointment. It was not only the delivery person not having the right equipment to get it off the truck, but then getting the equipment in and saying, oh, hang on a second. Quality control is off.

Nancy:
Yeah, you know, it was. It was definitely a challenging time. I think that, you know, obviously we’ve come through it. It’s fine. I think the other part was, you know, with. And it took me a little bit to understand this.

So about. About my product even, and about the concept and everything. I think, you know, most people, you. I’m opening a store, I’m opening a restaurant, or I’m opening whatever, and a truck’s going to magically arrive and your furniture is going to come off and it’s going to get set perfectly, and then all your products rolling off the truck and you just put that on the shelves and you sell it. So for us, you know, the furniture arrives and then raw product arrives, and then we have to literally make everything.

So it took me a while to understand that I wasn’t just running a retail business. I’m also really a factory as well. We’re a production company. So it’s a very different concept. And I think for me, it took a good four or five months to really kind of wrap my head around that.

So when a new franchisee is considering this brand, you know, I get a lot of calls all the time I’m considering the brand and I say, you know, I’m a very blunt and to the point person. So let me explain to you, if you think that this stuff is going to roll off and it’s just going to go smooth, it’s not. And you’re going to have a learning curve to learn how to make it. And, you know, let me tell you some of the pitfalls that I had. Like, I’m really big at always asking people, regardless of what the project is or what the business is, what would you do different? If you could do it over again, what would you do different?

And so I try and answer that for people before they even ask, like, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this. So I try really hard to, you know, I want people to learn from my mistakes so they don’t make the same mistakes if that’s, you know, an option.

So it has been very different. I think when you’re. When you have really high standards, which I. I think I do have high standards, it’s difficult because you’re not in direct control. You’re. You’re really just dealing with what you were sent. So.

Meg:
Yeah, well, I’ll never forget. I think about it often when I’m over at Cooper Talk. The time that you were there, I was talking to you about Image Studios and some of the challenges that we were having with construction. And I think my laundry list was going on and on and on, and I think you either snorted or guffawed or something and said, I’m so glad to know this happens to you, too.

Nancy:
I was really happy to know that happened to you.

Meg:
Well, if this happens to Meg, it clearly happens to everyone.

Nancy:
Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, as much as any good salesperson wants you to believe their product is the best and it’s going to be smooth and full-proof and all those things, you know, that’s false. We all know that. Right.

And so I think that as much as I had planned, I mean, after building the Brookfield Conference Center, I certainly know that there are gazillions of things that can go wrong during construction. I certainly never, for the most part, trust the end date. If someone says it’s going to be ready on March 31, I plan for April 15, at least. I think that part I knew. I just think that there’s always a learning curve with something new.

So even though I was frustrated, it’s like, you know, now looking back, I’m like, oh, it’s over. We’re fine. You know, we got through it. It’s fine.

Meg:
And to me, it’s very analogous to having a baby or raising a puppy, starting a new job. There’s that five to six month learning curve of, oh, my God, when does this thing sleep? When does it stop throwing up? When do I sleep?

The puppy. My puppy, who’s now three. It took her three years to figure out how to wake me up in the middle of the night because she has to go out.

Nancy:

Right.

Meg:
Got tired of waking up to puddles, but three years it took her. And I have to remind myself that with any of these new endeavors, it’s a learning curve. And sometimes you get curveballs and turning profitability, turning that corner always takes longer than what you hope.

Nancy:
Yes, I would agree with that. I certainly think I thought I had realistic goals, and I certainly didn’t think that I had unrealistic goals. I was not planning to be a millionaire in the first year. Obviously, I wasn’t planning to, you know, in my mind, pie in the sky, right? Oh, I’m going to open up six of these locations, and it’s all going to be smooth.

You know, I can tell You, I have two open. And at this point, you know, when will another open? I have no idea if you would have asked me this, you know, last year I had this great plan all on paper and an Excel spreadsheet and this is going to open and this can open here and this can open there and  that’s not the case anymore. So, you know, I’ve got two open. I, I need to just sit back and see how these go and see where we can go from there.

Meg:
Yeah, and that’s the practical reality of it. And we won’t talk politics, but in the last six months, people have talked about everything from the election, what’s going to happen, interest rates, what’s going to happen, the economy, the jobs report, what’s going to happen, bottom line is that people are still spending on personal needs. The health, fitness, wellness, beauty, in the beauty sector, which is what I would put your business in.

It’s soap and bath products. That’s wellness and health. People are going to spend on that kind of thing. But you and I are both finding in the Milwaukee market that it’s more of a wait and see, show me kind of a market versus an early adopter, quick uptake kind of a marketplace.

Nancy:
Yeah, I mean, I would agree with that. I think, you know, the other thing for me is that, you know, my franchise is there aren’t a lot of them in Wisconsin. So we’re still an emerging brand here. And I think that, you know, that in itself is, is creating some challenges. Right.

And what works in, I’m just going to randomly pick a state. You know, what works in Nevada might not work in Wisconsin. And I think some of that is, you know, it’s also the newness of the brand in general and just trying to convey that to the corporate brand to say like, you know, that might work and wherever, but that’s really not the reality here in where I’m at, you know, and you know, and then some of the pushback. Well, have you tried this? Have you tried that?

Well, don’t you think I’ve tried it? Like, of course I’ve tried it. I mean, you know, so I just think that there’s, there’s a learning curve for the brand as well. I mean, I’m part of a brand that’s growing, so they need to learn and they need to adapt to, hey, not everything is six stores in, in this small area anymore. Now we’re, you know, we’re growing. We’re at 50 stores nationwide.

But, you know, they’re right what work in Wisconsin, might not work in Arkansas or might not work in Alabama. And you know, what works in Nashville might not work in Chicago. So I think that, I think I’m learning as I go and I think, I hope that my brand is learning as they go as well.

Meg:
Yeah. And I’m giving a lot of direct feedback to mine as well. It’s similar kind of thing actually, Nancy, the party line that, well, this is how you do recruiting and this is how you do. This is how, you know what, I’m six months in and it’s not working well. Are you, are you executing it the right way?

Maybe we should send somebody out to see if you’re doing it the right way. Bring it on. Happy? 

Nancy:

Yeah. 

Meg:

61 years old. I’ve ridden this horse for a long time. I understand how important it is.

I’m the one with the money on the line. You think I. Hello. I’m the one in the most pain here, just like you.

Nancy:

Correct, Correct.

Meg:
You and I are not, and pardon to the listener, I don’t mean this offensively, but you and I are not like my husband, the 64 year old Gray haired Wall street guy stepping into a brand where that’s not the consumer base. So you and I are more aligned with our consumers. So giving that push back to the corporate office in a polite and professional way is what you and I are both doing in order to unharness ourselves from the pain of not enough revenue and maybe some employee challenges in order to get to that curve in the line that sends us back up onto making money and affording to expand further.

Nancy:
Yeah, I mean, I think that it’s interesting. I mean, and for me, you know, last year at this time I had very different plans for my future. You know, I mean, I really had thought, well, you know, I kind of had an exit strategy from my job, like I’ll retire from my job on this date and then, you know, be in the stores fully, you know. And since last year there’s been a lot of changes at my current job and there’s a, you know, new potential, great project on the horizon that I’m super excited about, it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity.

So that’s also changed the way I look at the future. You know, I don’t have an exit strategy from my full time job any longer. So now I’m, you know, I am at my stores some evenings and some weekends. But for me now it’s really important to train people who are in my stores to be that Face of the store. So it’s really kind of taken on a different challenge for me even when I’m looking to hire someone now, you know, obviously I’m looking for someone who fits the bill, right?

Can they work the hours? Are they willing to take the salary? But now it’s like, you know, before I was also training for personality, but now I’m training for a little bit of a different role. Like, like I’m training for my replacement, which feels a little weird. So. 

Meg:
It is interesting how it shifts and I’m working over the last 22 years of being a consultant. This is the fascinating thing about getting in and owning a business is that maybe you’re trying to create an exit strategy, but now the business shifts. I had a guy who bought big into a multi territory franchise, so excited to leave the corporate world and click, click, click on his shoulder came a seven figure job offer.

Yeah, he’s in his early 40s. I will sell these for pennies on a dollar because the corporate gig called me back. And granted, what he, what he said is that this is not the same corporate gig. I’m going to be able to breathe differently, I’m going to be able to interact differently. It won’t be the foot on my throat all the time.

Okay, well, that’s the beautiful thing about it. He was able to resell his territory or we were able to take that on. I’ve got other people like you who are saying, you know, I can figure out how to make these both work and still have a marriage and still engage with my kids. And you and I think are wired up that way that we like. We like it when the challenges present themselves.

Nancy:
Absolutely. 

Meg:
I remember when you were telling me about sticking with your job and being courted. I remember if you’re going out for brunch or lunch or whatever it was that day to meet with a couple of the guys who are going to try to woo you to stay. But I totally got it that, that’s a hook for you that those projects and doing another.

Maybe it’s not the same as Visit Brookfield, but you love that stuff. 

Nancy:
I do really very project based. You know, I love seeing things, you know, come to fruition. I love making big changes or, you know, the start of a big change or something like that.

Meg:
Big impact.

Nancy:
Big impact. And especially, you know, even when they presented this, I kind of laughed because this, I’ll say this new project is a solution to a problem. Okay. Or I find it to be a problem. Let me be clear.

And even when you Know, they were talking to me about it and I’m like, why? You know, you should have told me before I bought the soap empire here, you know, laughing. And you know, one of my board members said to me, well, you know, you’ve been complaining about this problem and so now, you know, you could provide the solution. And, you know, I went back to a time when I was really young and my grandfather had like, I don’t know, he had been some, some type of like local government kind of thing where he was appointed to like the water or sewer commission or something. And I remember it was, it was kind of stressful and he was complaining about it to my grandmother and I was there visiting, whatever, and I, I really was probably seven or eight, seriously.

And I remember looking at him saying like, grandpa, why, why did you even get involved? Why are you doing that? It just seems like such a, you know, a hassle or whatever. And he looked at me and he said, never bitch about a problem that you’re not willing to help find a solution for. And I thought to myself as I was being presented this opportunity, I’m like, well, I’ve been bitching about a problem and so I better be willing to provide a solution.

So, I mean, it’s kind of in my DNA. I mean, I sat on school board for six years. I was complaining about things at the school district. So, okay, put your money where your mouth is, then run for the office and try and, you know, try and help things along. So I think for me that’s just part of my like, internal character that, you know, I’m going to complain, I’m going to complain, but I’m usually going to have a solution or try and provide a solution.

Meg:
Yeah. And so the question that I have right now is how, who, who is your posse? Who do you turn to? As these things are evolving and shifting, you realize you need to make pivots. Is there a group or are there people, individuals who you turn to to say, oh my gosh, this is what’s happening and run ideas past. Or are you pretty independent?

Nancy:
I, I mean, I think I probably have different groups. I mean, I think that would be true in, in even my social set. You know, I’ve got different friends, different friends for different things. That sounds weird. 

Meg:
Yes. 

Nancy:
I mean, I have, I have a fun group of ladies that we’ve been friends for years. We call ourselves the wine squad.

You know, business wise, there’s an individual in that group who also is her own owner, very very successful. Her and I chat a lot she was. She was really quite important when I was trying to make this decision, you know, I really bounced a lot of ideas off of her about, you know, owning a franchise and that type of thing. Obviously, you spoke about our attorney. I mean, I find her to be a very valuable. I mean, I would like to call her my friend. I don’t know if she would say that, but I’ll call her my friend.

But, you know, she’s also very good to bounce things off of or maybe just do a little bit of like, I don’t know about this, you know, so, yeah, I think so. I think, you know, my husband is obviously a huge supporter. It was funny when I was deciding about this franchise, you know, I’m always bouncing crazy ideas. Like, we just always laugh about Nancy’s next million dollar idea, right? And so I bounce a lot of things off him, and usually, you know, I’m pretty quick with my answers and my responses and sadly, my mouth most of the time.

And so he’s a little more reserved and, you know, takes a little bit of time to think about it. So as Nancy’s bouncing million dollar ideas off of her husband, you know, usually he, most of them, he’s like, nope, that’s not happening. Nope. You’re not going to do that. No, we’re not doing that. And this one, I bounced off of him and he came back and said, you can do this. You. You can do this.

And then it was funny because it was role reversal, because then I got cold feet and said, no, I can’t. I don’t know. This is lot of money. What if. What if we, what if we have to eat cat food? What if we, you know, whatever, all these things.

And so he, you know, he’s been my biggest supporter. And even right now, you know, as you talked about, is this going exactly as I had planned? No, It’s slower than what I had planned by a long shot. It’s definitely slower.

And, you know, every time I come home and I’m like, oh, you know, crying about it, not really crying, but, you know, complaining, he’s like, you’ve got this. He’s like, it’s not going to be a success overnight. You’ve got to put, you know, your mark on it. Like, he’s just really, really supportive.. In a way that’s like, funny because I’m like, boy, you believe in me more than I believe in myself. And he’s like, yeah, well, you do the same for me. So, you know, in that respect.

Although he’s not necessarily in the same world as far as business goes. He’s a mailman, so his world is real different. He loves getting out, talking to his customers, delivering mail. And he’s closer to retirement than I am. So he’s got, he’s got a counter on his phone. He’s got like, you know, two years, seven days, four hours, whatever it is, and he’s, he’s ready to retire.

Little does he know he’s going to be working at the soap store.

Meg:
I know. 

Nancy:
But yeah, I mean, I would say I’ve got some close friends. You know, I love the idea that I have this great relationship with you that I can, you know, call and say, like, ah, this is going wrong, Meg, what did you do in this situation? But I think women in general, I mean, I think, you know, I’m all about girl power. As I said, I’m all about, you know, empowering other women.

I think any other female business owner, I mean, I’d be hard pressed if another female called me and wanted to just chit chat about business. That I would not, never turned down that opportunity. You know, I would, you know, I might not work with my schedule that minute, but I would try and make time for that person to, you know, just talk about the pitfalls or also the successes or whatever. I mean, I think we as women have to help other women along and we’ve got to think about that next generation and you know, what kind of.

I mean, obviously we’ve come a long way, right? Not to use a cliche term, but we’ve come a long way from our grandmothers and even our moms, right? And I want my daughters to, you know, go even further. I mean, I want my daughters to take over the world, right? I mean, that’s, that’s what it’s all about.

Meg:
So there are a couple of things that I thought of here. You and I are both married to men who are strong women advocates. When they say they love strong women, they actually mean it. And that’s not true of, of all men.

Nancy:
Right. 

Meg:

He, Herb and Pete are probably the same in that Pete talks to me and says, why do you doubt your. Now is not the time to take your foot off the pedal.

You keep spending on marketing. You have to keep your presence in Go girl, go. And don’t worry about the dogs. Don’t worry about me at dinner. I’ll see you when you get home later. And go crush it.

Another thing that came to mind is a couple of weeks ago I went to a conference in Virginia. It was a I am B.O.L.D B O L D conference for women. And she, the Nina who organized it had a panel of men and talking about the male perspective of strong women in business and what are we getting right and what are we getting wrong. And one guy, so interesting, he said, as men, if there’s a job and we need a job and there’s a job opening, we’re going to apply for it. Even if we think we only have about 50% of the skill sets, we’re going to go for it.

You women are going to wait until you got 100% of the skills, until you can check every box and justify your capabilities. You’re missing, you’re missing so much opportunity by not giving yourself the freedom to apply for things that you’re going to learn from. I thought, what an interesting perspective to call out women on being too reticent to step out and make mistakes.

Nancy:
I, I just think it’s part of our nature. Right? I mean, I just think. I don’t know. I, I mean, I will say that normally I’m a bit more of, you know, I say this about myself all the time. I’m all about asking for forgiveness rather than permission. And so I usually am a little more bold.

So I would agree with, with that panelist. I mean, I have certainly applied for jobs that I absolutely didn’t, didn’t think I would get. And, you know, the fact that I was running an Expo center with 133 acres and ginormous events at age 29 was, you know, pretty unheard of. In fact, many people back then, you know, not politically correct, but literally in the interview, someone said to me, how old are you?

Meg:
Meaning you didn’t have enough experience, Correct?

Nancy:
Correct. I mean, I tend to, you know, I certainly didn’t have CVB experience before I came here. You know, I had expo experience, I had marketing experience, but I didn’t have specifically the skill set. So I would agree. I mean, I’ve never worked retail in my entire life and I bought a retail franchise.

So, you know, I agree. Go for it. You know, if you know the skill set, I think if you have the tenacity in the beginning, I think that the skill set, you can, you’ll find it. You know, you’re going to seek out those right people to get those answers. And, you know, if you’re smart, you’re going to stay quiet a little bit and learn from others around you, which I think that’s a pitfall for some People, you know, rolling into a new position or rolling into a new business thinking that you know everything. Probably not just, you know, sit back and learn a little bit first.

And then, of course, use your big girl voice to tell people what you need to.

Meg:
Yeah, well and the word that you used in there that I love is tenacity. Every day, we are the ones who roll ourselves out of bed and decide we’re going to make it work. Or at least I do. I don’t know what.

In the middle of the night, I get the awfulizing voices that say, oh, my God, oh, this is never going to work. And I wake up in the morning thinking, why was I so down, so negative. It’s the monsters in the middle of the night. I get up in the morning, like, screw that, I’m going for it. It’s tenacity.

Nancy:
Yeah, I just, you know, pull into McDonald’s, grab my large Diet Coke, crank that music, and I’m good to go by the time I get there. So. Yeah, I mean, I think you just have to go for it. You know, I. And I know that’s tough, right? I mean, I’m 53. I’ll share. It’s not a big deal. But, you know, I think back and I’m like, boy, a lot of opportunities I missed when I was younger because I just wasn’t willing to go for it. And I should have gone for it at a younger age.

Meg:
Yeah, well. And so we’re going to continue to run into challenges, but I’ll continue to meet you for a glass of wine, and we can always talk over what’s going on. And it is true in business ownership that there are those surprises, the sneak attacks, the curveballs, whatever analogy you want to use. But we’re better together and we’re more capable of getting through it if we talk about it. So many of these things that we run into are not unique. Very few of these things are, oh, I’ve never heard of that before.

So have the faith, listener, that if you’re endeavoring into this or you have already and you’re running into a brick wall, we’re right here.

Nancy:
Absolutely 

Meg:

On the other end of the phone. As I say, once you’re mine, you’re always mine. So it makes it easy to be able to in touch with you and make sure that your growth trajectory is satisfactory. I am happy to hear about the other project that’s coming up, and we’ll just have to get together and talk more about it.

Nancy:
So I think we can drink some wine at this new project.

Meg:
Oh, awesome.

Can’t wait. Well, Nancy Justman, thank you so much for spending the time with me today talking about real situations that happen in real business and how to make it work. And I can’t wait to see you on the bar stool at Cooper’s Hawk.

Nancy:
Well, thank you. I have enjoyed working with you, and this was a pleasure to be on today.