Navigating the Construction Journey: Tips from an Industry Insider

And so then, you know, I’m not sure exactly why. Then I said, no, we’re going to, I’m going to give notice on August 31st—or no, I’m sorry, July 31st. And I figured I had about a week before it hit the business journal, and then my current boss would find out something’s going on. And so I’m like, okay, I got this week to work out.

But it was right around then I thought, okay, I can’t do this from home. I actually need, not only do I need to get going on it, I need to actually move into a different place because kids. It’s great to have the kids coming in, but it’s not great, you know, both ways.

We’ve seen the Zoom calls where the kids are sneaking around while you’re trying to do your Zoom call. So, you know, I think I just kept my head down. I had lots of family support and I had a little bit of cushion of money saved up so that as far as paying the mortgage, I was good for a little while. So I knew I had to work that out.

And I just, I kept my overhead in check so that I could, you know, I was a little conservative on how I did it, but aggressive in that I did it. So I guess there were a little bit of sleepless nights, but I don’t remember them now, which is good.

Meg
It’s like having kids, like having babies. You don’t remember the pain.

Mark
Yes, you don’t remember.

Meg
well, it clearly has provided a lot of diversification strategy for you. Diversification. And I don’t mean strategy, but I really mean in your professional life. You obviously kicked it off and accomplished a lot, but along the way you clawed back some personal time.

Mark
I did, I did. And one of the things at the other company, I had a boss, the owner, that was still family-centered. He had six daughters. But still, when I wanted to leave work in the middle of the day to go to the kids’ program at school or to go see something that was happening during my workday that I didn’t want to miss of my kids, you know, he probably would have said yes every single time.

But then I always kind of in the back of my mind was worried about what all the other employees were going to say if they didn’t have kids or whatever. And here Mark’s leaving all the time. Even though I would come back that night, you know, and maybe I’d work from six until nine at night and then, you know, go back home.

But when I started the company, my goal was to be able to keep it at a level that I could be home for dinner every night with the kids, be able to sneak away if need be, to go to their program knowing that, yeah, I might end up working at night that night.

And in the beginning, there were times when I was working really late. And I mean that’s I think every person who starts a business, franchise, whatever, they’re going to have those times when they put in a zillion hours. And it’s because they did it, they didn’t expect their employees to put in the heavy overtime, whatnot.

So, but that gave me the ability to set this up. And one thing that’s key and every person that I’ve ever interviewed I explain to them: you’re going to be home for dinner at 5:15 or 5:30, however far you live away from here. Because at about 10 after 5, we leave, we go home to our families. And that’s very important to me.

And that’s the other reason why I try to stay within an hour of Brookfield, because that allows them to get home. Now we’ve done. I did up to 14 Papa John’s. Well, one of them happened to be in Eau Claire, and I know that’s three hours away.

Well, we talked with the owner and I said, let me check with one of my guys to see if he’d be willing. I’ll put him up in a hotel. I’ll pay for him to come home on the weekends and all. That’s not a hotel, like an apartment. And he didn’t have any little kids at home anymore. They were all out of the house. And he said, sure, I’ll go up there for you. And he was a guy that was with me for 10 years. He has since retired.

And so then it worked out. But and that was for an existing customer. So I’m not chasing stuff that’s three hours away, but we will make accommodations and talk. And then once again, I could have just told my employee, I need you to go there. But I didn’t. I said, let’s work this out. What do you need? How can I make this work?

So that’s the biggest thing that I’ve gotten out of having my own company is I’ve been able to build that culture of family. And I want you to have a family. I don’t want you to get done with your life and “Hey, but I worked 80 hours a week. It was great.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So that’s probably the biggest thing out of having your own company.

Meg
And people with whom I have worked over the years, or even today, will hear that and say, like, that’s impossible, how you can but you can. The reason I wanted you to tell that story is that you’re just an average guy who’s married with a bunch of kids who wanted to strike out on his own and do his own thing.

But if you start with the end in mind, if you start with the parameters that are the tenets of your business and you’re holding on to them, dedicated to it, then for any of you listening, you can do it. You can have quality of life and engage with your family and start a business at the same time.

You just have to know what your priorities are, write them down, and then stick with them. And you will. If you… what’s that saying? If you can see it, you can achieve it. If you… what? You know that saying that I’m trying to think of?

Mark
No, you’re right. And I added a little short side story.

So I was scoutmaster for a Boy Scout troop for 20 years. Well, six years as scoutmaster, but 20 years in Scouts. And a couple of my kids went on to become Eagle.

And we’ve had many parents that would say, “Oh, you can’t be in sports and be in Scouts and get your Eagle.” And I completely disagree because I had a number of boys that got through Boy Scouts and got Eagle. And guess what? They played at Marquette High for varsity football all four years, Brookfield East—that were the two schools that were in my area.

And so the point is, just like you said, you put your mind to it and say, “I can do this. I just need to coordinate my time frame.” It is possible. And it’s not just Scouts. Yes—business also, and almost anything. You just have to have that initial mindset of how you’re going to do it.

Meg
Right. So you and I have spent some time in the past talking about how you have grown your business through osmosis, if you will. You’ve been so integrated in the real estate market, and particularly around Milwaukee. So you’ve really expanded your practice outside of just a general contractor. But you’re able to advise your clients too, prior to signing a lease, to look at certain elements of building and construction.

Talk about…

Mark
Right.

Meg
Talk about your advisory capacity.

Mark
So let’s take a step back to when we first named the company. So we’re named One Source for a reason. And part of it is because of all of the experience that I learned in the first, you know, 18 or whatever, 20 years of my being in construction.

It was learning about the whole process. You came to me and said, I want to build a building, but I have nothing. Okay, great. I know how the real estate world works to find you a piece of property. I know how the banking world works to be able to connect you up with the right banker that can do a regular loan, SBA loan, whatever. Oh, you need insurance for that business? I can connect you up.

So a lot of it has to do with knowing all the circle of advisors. But it’s not that I’m just a consultant giving you names. Now let’s take it a step further into the pro forma. Many times, I’ll help, I’m actually looking at a restaurant this afternoon after this and you start to… I know I shouldn’t, but I already put the hat on: all right, how many tickets does this guy need to be able to push through this place to get this to work?

But it’s more than that. It’s, all right, you want to go in this space. You love this location. Oh, but guess what? The building is too short, or it’s too narrow, or the plumbing is way on the other end of the building, or, you know, all these different things that I see that the franchisee doesn’t.

Because they’re just in love with the location. And I get location is very important, but I’m here to help you balance the cost to be in that location so that at the end of the day you go, “Okay, at least I know going into this lease negotiation that the letter of intent should say, ‘Hey Mr. Landlord, I want you to bring the sewer to my space, I want you to bring the water to my space, and I need 500–600 amps of power,’ blah blah blah.”

And so I’m there to help you not write that LOI—letter of intent—but I’m there to guide you with what do I see. It’s up to you and your real estate broker to write whatever you’re going to write in there, because the deal may not work for them or you, depending on what you do.

But I’m there to help keep you out of trouble. And then we’ve added, we’ve had some instances where the landlord is supposed to give you something before you take control of the space and do your own build-out. And it would be me or whatever, whoever your contractor is, should look at that letter and then check to see: did they do everything they’re supposed to do before you take it over?

So that it makes sure they’re doing what they’re supposed to do and you’re not paying more than you should pay to get going.

So there’s value added. And I look at spaces gratis because it helps build a relationship. But I’ll look at them ahead of time and I’ll walk with you and I’ll look at multiple spaces.

We did, I did yoga six. So that’s the 104-degree yoga with 40% humidity. We looked at four places before she landed in Oak Creek on that one. I just finished the Club Pilates in Whitefish Bay.

And don’t get me wrong, I’d love it if you looked at one space and it worked. But that’s not always how it works. I looked at three or four places with her before she got that Club Pilates. And those are all customers that I’ve done multiple locations for.

And so that’s something that we’ll do. We’ll help you look at a space ahead of time and I’ll just verbally tell you what I see. Or if, you know, if you need a full write-up or if you’re going to buy a building and you need something, we’ll talk about that too.

But that’s how we can help a franchise—or even not, anybody, not just a franchise. Somebody’s looking to start a business.

Meg
Yeah.

Mark
Or move somewhere, grow, or just relocate. That’s one of the things that we do. That’s the value added, is all that knowledge that I have, I want to share it with somebody and use it to help that person succeed.

And if they don’t hire me, guess what? They’re going to tell somebody else about me. Because I haven’t found too many guys that do what I do.

Meg
Well, you and I have a case in point with my Image Studios in Wauwatosa. When they wanted to hand over the space and they said that the landlord’s work was done, and you went in there and said, “No, we’re a long way from being done.”

Between you and Karen Abrams, my real estate attorney, ended up getting back what was it $50,000 or more.

Mark
Yeah.

Meg
And work that had not been done that they had committed to. But…

Mark
And I think part of it was whoever wrote up the landlord side of the work letter or reviewed it, maybe is the better term didn’t understand what they were reviewing.

And so when I said, “No, it says fully functional whatever…” it wasn’t fully functional. It needed some work to be done to meet the letter.

So that’s important. When our listeners look at or get ready to write an LOI, or they’re presented with an LOI, the landlord’s going to do this for you, read it and make sure somebody who understands that kind of stuff looks at it with you. Because brokers don’t necessarily understand it and attorneys don’t necessarily understand it.

Meg
And we had a couple of those real big disconnects where it took quite a long time, but ultimately ended up getting the win on that one because it was the right thing to do. It was written the way that it was written and it needed to be delivered.

And they conceded, the landlord conceded and everything is fine now. But it was a little bit rocky and tense there for a period of time because they didn’t want to be told, “No, the space isn’t ready.”

So this is for the listener: this is why it’s really important to have a really good real estate attorney and a really good general contractor.

I’m sure you’ve got loads of stories about projects that didn’t go quite right or unexpected you know, a left hook that came out of nowhere. But really, that’s where your experience comes into play.

How do you then work with your subcontractors when you get those bigger surprises and help them navigate through getting it done right?

Mark
So a couple things. Let’s first talk about, you know, if there’s a problem on the project where whether it’s money or time that’s occurring.

The approach that our company has is we need to inform the owner as soon as possible about what’s going on. Not to hit them over the head and, “Oh, it’s going to cost you another $100,000,” or whatever. But the idea is to make sure that they understand there’s something happening.

You’re working on the solution. Maybe you have it already. You’re working on the solution. You’re going to present the ramifications. Maybe it’s just time. Maybe it’s money. Maybe it’s both.

And so the first thing is being able to communicate with the customer that something’s going on and not wait until a week before they’re opening and go, “Oh yeah, you’re not opening because we don’t have a phone service,” or whatever.

So that’s the first thing that we talk about on a project if something was to go sideways. And whether it goes sideways because of acts of God you know, there was a rainstorm or something, the roof wasn’t on yet, we had a rainstorm, it got everything soaking wet inside the building.

Well, now the building’s enclosed. It’s not drying as fast as it could. “Hey Meg, I need to put in fans and heaters. And there’s some cost to do that, but we’ve got to do it because we’ve got to dry out the ground.”

So that’s that kind of problem that comes up. And yes, we work with all of our partners and subcontractors to solve the problem and then present the solutions to the customer.

And then there are some times where you may have a great subcontractor, but they sent out a crew that’s maybe the B crew, and they’re starting to do their work. And you get partly, you get into it and you’re like, “Okay, this isn’t the quality we want to provide.”

He’s half done with the job. Now we’ve got to step on him to say, “Wait a minute. This isn’t acceptable. Stop. Don’t do any more until we talk about it. Because this isn’t what I normally get from your company, and we need to fix it.”

And through the course of any construction project, one of the ways to motivate them is, “Well, remember if you can’t do it right, I’ve got to get somebody else to do it. I’m going to take it out of your contract.” So money would be one of the motivational factors that we have.

The other one is our subcontractors do work over and over with us. And it’s not that we have just one electrician or one plumber. We have multiples. But we’re big enough that we use three or four different electricians, three or four different plumbers, and so on.

And so they’re all still vying they know that they’re one of three or four when they’re bidding to us. So that’s pretty good odds as opposed to, “Oh, I’m one of eight people they invite, every time they invite eight people, and it’s just a low-bid situation.”

And so we try to if we can it’s low qualified bidder. Can he get there? Does he have the manpower? We normally won’t invite somebody if we don’t think they are a qualified subcontractor.

I mean, that’s just wasting their time, and it’s wasting our time to go through the efforts to do.

Meg
Your reputation is everything, and so is theirs.

Mark
Yes, yes. And so the hope is that no matter what the problems are, you continue to stay on them and continue to try to make the customer happy with the end results that you have the effort that’s in there.

And we’re trying to make sure that customer gets the product that they were looking to get at the beginning of this process.

A lot of franchise situations have plans with specifications that the franchisee or franchisor wants it exactly like this. Because every time you go into a Hand & Stone Massage, it feels the same no matter where you are in the country.

Just like McDonald’s you know, same french fries everywhere. So, a lot of times, the plans are set to a point where I don’t get to change them. I have to, you know, get an approval. If I see something wrong, I bring it to their attention which every contractor should but bring it to their attention and ask them, “What do you want me to do?”

Some architects will say, “Nope, put it in that way. That’s the way it’s got to be.” That’s fine.

But other architects are like, “Well, can we save some money?” “Hey, we’ll try to save you some money with these other solutions.” Because we didn’t realize we’re in Minneapolis drawing these plans or wherever, and you’re in Milwaukee, and you know the local inspectors and the local codes and whatever.

So there’s a lot of even though the plans are set with a lot of these and there’s different levels.

Some—I’m doing a Hotworx right now—we’re going to get ready to do the second one. And they give you kind of like a very light scope. And then they say, draw up a plan and send it to us, we’ll approve it, and then just kind of follow the scope or the guide.

And so it’s a lot more loose than, say, an Image Studios, where they were, “I want this kind of heating equipment. I want this, and I want this zoning.” And they laid it all out,

Meg
Right.

Mark
So there’s different levels, and we do both. One is called plan and spec, and the other one is kind of called design build.

Meg
So the experience that I have had in the Milwaukee market well, with our networking group, we’ve got a lot of people who have utilized your services there.

The integrity that you bring to the entire process, the communication early when there is an issue, and getting the subcontractor out that’s not doing the work right and getting someone else in there yeah, we had some changes to our original plan.

We’re still working with some extended warranty situations. But this is the benefit of finding and everyone listening should talk to more than one general contractor.

Just so you by comparison. This is how I run my process with my candidates evaluating different franchises. If you talk to three, now you know what’s standard and you can pick out what the differentiators are.

And that’s really what stood out to me when I interviewed you and some of the other companies that we got bids from. I didn’t go low. Going low is not always the right answer.

Mark
One of the things that I tell and I appreciate that. One of the things that I tell everybody when I’m parting ways is I’ll say, “You know, I know you’re talking with other people.”

I said, “At the end of the day, be comfortable with who you’re going to hire because you’re going to be married to that person during the duration of the project.”

And when it comes down to it, you’re going to have a contract. And whatever’s in that contract is going to be the rules of the game of what’s supposed to happen.

And you can get guys that play the game that, “Oh, this is a plan and specification job. I see all kinds of problems, but I’m not going to bring them up till I have a contract. And then I’m going to hit them over the head with all these changes. So I’ll be low in the beginning, then I’m going to make it all back up on the end.”

And that’s horrible. That puts you guys are sticking your neck out. You’re having sleepless nights, and you’re at home going, “Oh my gosh, what’s going to happen next?”

The contractor comes back to me every day with something else that’s wrong with these plans. And the architect unless it’s a major error and omission, it’s called errors and omissions insurance too, they’re not gonna come back and pay for it.

There might be a little bit of compensation, but generally they say, “Well, if I missed it on the plan, you never had to pay for it. So now it’s not really I owe you the cost for that door I just owe you the difference, really, in what the door costs now as an extra versus it was in the plan from the beginning.”

So… and that’s you end up getting attorneys and all kinds of junk, and everybody goes, “It’s just not worth it to go through the attorneys. I’ll pay for the door,” let’s just say.

So, you know, that’s one of the things and I don’t like to do that. I like to figure out a way to share that information with my customer in a way that hopefully they don’t go to all the other bidders and say, “Fix all your bids to the way that Mark did his bid because he found all these problems and we want to have everything be even.”

I can’t tell somebody how to do that. I just hope that they don’t take all of my homework and hand it to the other guy. But it happens.

And you try to—you hope that when they’re looking at the bids, they say, “I know this guy really went through the plans. He asked the most questions.”

And not because he didn’t know what he was doing, but because he found things that he said, “I need to ask before I provide a final bid. I need to know what we’re doing in this situation or that situation.”

Or, “I noticed this on the walkthrough and I don’t see anybody else… there’s no addendums that came out. Nobody asked this question. I’m going to ask it. What are we doing with this?”

And it’s probably experience that takes me down that road or maybe getting burned in the past or whatever. That’s something that I bring to the table to help.

Meg
I think the, what I don’t think, I know—as you’re working with me and as you’re working with some of the other clientele who have signed multiple-unit agreements to open more than one location, the long game is to get to the second location and the third location and referrals beyond that.

And that’s what some general contractors are not really paying attention to in the world of franchising is that a lot of us are, I call us repeat offenders. We keep coming back and not only opening more locations, but maybe we’re going to diversify into a different brand and now continue to expand that way.

So having having a relationship with you, for example, helps with a rumble or club Pilates or whatever it might be. Whoever it might be is. It’s the integrity of the relationship. The first time around leads to unit two, three and beyond. And that’s. That’s cheap new business, because you’re not advertising for new people now. It’s word of mouth. And, yeah, you’ve got people like me who are brand champions.

Mark
You are 100% correct. And that’s how it started out for me to do 22 Dunkin Donuts. You know, we did the first one and did a really, really good job. And these guys just went boom, boom, boom.

So we did 18 for the first group of guys, and then a second group of guys bought another territory, and I did four for them.

So it absolutely word of mouth, and then word of mouth within the brand. So the Club Pilates in Whitefish Bay that I did, she was a friend of Jennifer out in Brookfield that had that Club Pilates.

And so of course they talked. “Who did you use? How did it go?” You know, and all this. And I know Karen in Whitefish Bay is very happy with what we’ve done.

And so that’s a big part of it. And the fact that I’ve done multiple projects with multiple, with different people even in the same brand, two Dunkin Donuts owners, two different Club Pilates owners. it indicates to the brand, “Oh yeah, Mark knows what he’s doing. That’s fine. If you want to hire him, great,” or whatever.

Because I know there’s guidance some guidance that happens from the franchise level.

Meg
It does. And I’ll tell you a Donna story when we’re done.

We’ve got project managers who have worked with different general contractors, and particularly in the same market. That was one of the benefits for me is that Donna had worked with other franchisee in the marketplace, had the experience with other general contractors, knew what some of the pitfalls were, the problems that had arisen, and how they were addressed is not the way that you address the issues that you’ve already itemized in this interview.

So it was great for me to go back to corporate and the project management team and say, “All right, well, with this other location that was built, what were some of the problems? How did they get resolved? And was it adequate?”

And the answer was no, it really. So being part of a franchise, that is one of the benefits is they will tell you when someone isn’t.

Mark
And you touched on something that I want to carefully talk about.

So you as the franchisee, and me as the builder, even though I have a set of plans and I’m supposed to build it according to the plans, you being involved and understanding what’s happening, even if it’s a Zoom call now instead of meeting on site once a week, it’s really important that you do that.

Because otherwise. And when you buy a franchise, you go look at that franchise in operation at other locations. You go to corporate. You learn about what’s going to happen after the builder’s gone.

And what that does is it helps you see what. When the builder’s building something, you can go, “Don’t build it that way. I know that the outlet should be over here instead of over here.”

If you’re not involved enough to hit on those little nuances, I’ll build it exactly what’s on the plan because I don’t know any better, because I’m not the one running an Image or whatever.

And then I get done, I hand you the keys, and you go, “Oh, well, you didn’t key it this way,” and I don’t know any better.

So my point is, anybody who’s looking at this, they still need to be actively involved. And not so much that you care that tomorrow I’m drywalling or the, you know, taping is going to take three days. You’ll get a schedule. You should get a schedule if your general contractor is doing his job.

And you should get an update every week whether it’s Zoom or however you do it with the communication. So you should stay involved.

Because I know of some instances, and I think you do too, where they weren’t as involved, and they admitted it to me: “We weren’t as involved as we should have been, and if I had to do it all over, I would be much more involved.”

So hopefully your listeners hear that and don’t think, “I got 27 different things going on. I can’t even pay attention to that.”

You have to. You have to at least, you know, every other week or whatever you have to, to some degree, stay with it.

Meg
Yeah. I think the fact that historically I’ve built homes, I’ve built other businesses, it’s like your kids.

If you’re not going to be involved, it’s like getting a puppy. If you’re not going to be involved, don’t expect a great dog.

Mark
Right.

Meg
So yes, to your point, it doesn’t have to become and it shouldn’t become your full-time job. Don’t get in there and tell the general contractor what to do.

Hire a good one like Mark and let him do his magic. But do participate and pay attention to.

We’ve got all sorts of little things that if we had picked that up and known about it from the plan, from the blueprint, the architect could have done a better job with certain things.

But I think we stuck on a schedule really well and communicated thoroughly about what was going on.

Mark
I think so.

Meg
So that was really… Any project like this, for listeners I don’t care if it’s 1,200 square feet or 10,000 or larger you’re going to have sleepless nights. And you’re going to say, “Oh my God, I can’t believe how much this costs. That was unexpected.”

Yeah. Expect the unexpected. But align yourself with somebody who’s high-quality, reputable, and you would want to work with again.

Mark
Yeah.

Meg
Somebody you’d want to go out and have a drink with.

Mark
Yes. But and a reminder you’re married to this person for that project. You can’t go, “I just—I hate One Source. I’m getting rid of them next week.”

It’s a big deal to change contractors in the middle of a project. Because the biggest thing is there’s always that fight about how much did I do before you kicked me off the job site for the next guy.

And now if the next guy wants more money, who’s paying for that? I mean, it’s a giant mess.

So it’s really important I can’t stress it enough that you need to be comfortable. Don’t just look at the dollars. Look at how that guy runs his company.

Check references, you know, if you can, on how he finished. Was he on time?

There’s guys that are competition for me that tell you whatever they think you want to hear they’re telling you that. And then once they sign the contract, they come up with all the reasons in the world that, “Oh, you know, we can’t get this done. I can’t get that done. We’re going to be late.”

Meg
Yeah.

Mark
So… And once you’re started, you can’t get out of it.

Meg
Yeah. Well, and it goes both ways too.

I was very cognizant of issues that were cropping up that were a pain in my ass. I didn’t want to have to deal with them, and I needed to very carefully navigate those conversations with you so that I didn’t become the bridezilla that crazy owner who… I’m sure, I bet you have had clients that you would like to fire.

Mark
Yes. Yes. We’ve always had a couple. And we’re like, “No, we have to finish as strong as possible, because reputation.”

Once again, if I go south and I bail on a job, it’s so much harder to land a new customer than it is one that was told by an existing customer, “Oh, he did a great job.”

And you don’t know where those leads are coming from. I did a 12,000-square-foot building last year in Menomonee Falls, and the lead came from two people sitting on the patio having a cocktail.

And they were both their little kids were in grade school together. And that’s how the lead I got the call and I said, “How did you find out about me?” She goes, Oh, I talked to so-and-so actually a residential broker friend of mine that I’m in a networking group with.

And she goes, “Yeah, I was sitting on the patio with this woman, and she goes, ‘I think we’re going to build a new building.’” And all of a sudden I get a call.

So, you know, you just don’t know where they’re coming from.

Meg
Yeah. Well, this has been a great interview, Mark. I’m so glad that you finally said yes and we were able to document all of this because it’s so important.

When I’m working with my candidates who are going to be building out to not only be able to recommend you for our particular area but now we’ve got it documented for people who are listening from around the country.

As you’re interviewing your general contractor, take note of some of these high points from Mark. He’s well-established, experienced.

You’ve just done a great job with navigating all the ins and outs with Image Studios, and I need to pick your brain about locations 2 and 3.

But for now, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. I really appreciate your time.

Mark
Thank you for having me.