From Camo to CEO: An Army Vet’s Journey to Entrepreneurship

Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz – Guest: Nina Copeland – U.S. Army Veteran, Executive Coach & Founder of Copeland’s Coaching and Consulting

Meg  Schmitz: Hello, everyone, and welcome to, or welcome back to the free agent podcast. I love it when I have returning listeners, but I also love picking up new ones. So welcome to the podcast called the free agent. My name is Meg Schmitz. The conversation here is all about becoming a free agent and taking control over your financial future.

The mission of my show is to share inspiring conversations with real people who took the leap into self employment, business ownership, sometimes franchising, and freedom from corporate refugees and executives tired of the desk job, to entrepreneurs and investors looking to share camaraderie and inspiration through their own business journey. My podcast aims a spotlight on real people who stepped into the unknown to control over their destiny and became their own boss. Today I have a remarkable guest, an unusual guest, and something. This is a relationship that’s very personal to me. Nina Copeland and I have known each other for the last year or so through a program called ACP Advisor Net.

Nina is a current army veteran, nearly 20 years. She is leaving the military shortly. And through ACP advisornet, I have a lovely role in working with her as a mentor as she’s making the transition from the military into civilian life, but more importantly from the military into entrepreneurship. I can’t wait to unlock fold this conversation.

Nina, thank you for joining me today.

Nina Copeland: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. I am definitely honored to be here today.

Meg: Well, you know, I’ve got about 150 of these under my belt now, and I don’t often get the opportunity to interview somebody who is as dynamic as you are and as a female, a woman of color, a leader in the United States army.

Thank you very much for your service. This fine young man over here, this is my grandfather. He served in World War II in the army. But all of these, all of these conversational topics that we have, you’re also a human being, a wife, a mother of four boys. You’ve got a life in transition right now.

There’s so much to talk about. Where would you like to start?

Nina: I guess we can just start talking about what made me decide to be an entrepreneur versus knowing that I was transitioning out and not just taking on another government job. And so I think that’s very interesting and that’s something that I really had to sit down and really map out. Like, what I wanted for my life, what I wanted for my family.

And although I can go back and work a government job, I will still not have the freedom that I would have into entrepreneurship. And the only difference between the two is, I feel like with entrepreneurship, you have to be dedicated. You have to know precisely what it is you want to do because you have to put it together. So you’re getting the freedom, but you. Right, you have the freedom of maneuver as well.

Like, you have to. You have to take that freedom and design the life that you want to have versus a job. You just do the job. Everything is there for you. The rules are there.

It’s like, here’s your left and right limits. Go. In entrepreneurship, there’s no left and right limits. It’s all about your creativity and what it is. I had that challenge as I stepped into entrepreneurship.

I think I was looking for a system that I had been so accustomed to in the military, and there was no system. It’s like, no, you create the system. And so that was interesting. And so I think that was the biggest thing. But I still wanted that freedom.

So I still want the entrepreneurship because I want to be able to not have a cap on my finances. If I can make more than $200,000 a year, why limit myself? And so that was what entrepreneurship was doing for me, is helping me to see bigger and broader and not just be accustomed to, like, oh, making six figures, making that 100,000 six figures, and thinking that that was success for me.

Meg: You have struck me from the very beginning that you are not the typical military person. And to your point, so many come out of the military. They have an ambition. They have an idea for entrepreneurship, but they’re not ready to take on that independence as well as we can frame it and put it in nice terms. But being an entrepreneur means you’re in the trenches every day, and the buck stops here. There isn’t, to your point, the left and the right to say, whoa, get back in the guidelines here. It can be quite the challenge.

And you and I have talked quite a bit about the day-to-day obstacles that pop up. And one of them that’s very personal to me in working with you is the support mechanisms that you have been able to find, because I hope this is okay, because they’re not really there at home. And the support from your husband and your boys has been very hard fought. And I don’t know if you are winning with that yet.

Talk about those trenches. But how are you elevating yourself and getting out of them so that you have the drive and determination every day.

Nina: Yeah, I think it’s really. It’s a battle in your mind, right? I think that’s where it starts. It starts in your mind. And I think for me, I had to realize what the problem was for me. Like, was I needing them to do something, but I wasn’t articulating. Like, listen, I need you all to show up like this, for me.

I think that was a part of it. I just assumed they understood, like, hey, I’m starting a business, and that means that everyone in the house needs to jump on board. And so I realized that that’s my. And with good mentorship, that was my idea. That’s my idea.

It’s not their idea. Although I feel like, well, when I win and I do all these things and receive the accolades, like, you’re getting that as well. So silently, I wanted them to participate, but they really didn’t know. So it was just like, that lack of communication there and then also, I had to realize, okay, now that I’ve told you this is what I need, are you going to do it? I had to really come to Mom to say, this is what you want, and you need to do that.

And that is without them to go get good mentorship like yourself and other programs. I had to lean on those programs to boost me up in the times where I maybe felt had that self doubt, like, oh, did I make the right decision to go into entrepreneurship right away? Like, maybe I need to go get a job right now. I could do something else. So I think for me, it’s feeding my mind every day.

What is it that you want? If you want entrepreneurship, you know, you have to be laser focused. So figure out how to be laser focused without losing my stamina in the home. I think that’s that riff that I have. Like, how do I show up as a entrepreneurship without being, you know, it’s still being mom and still be a wife and how you still manage all the roles.

Yeah. So I think that’s, like, my challenge, but I just depend on. I just get me a team around me that’s going to understand me, that’s going to love me when I’m depleted. It’s not a judgment zone, but I can really come and say, like, I’m not doing well right now or I don’t feel good or whatever the case may be, and they can understand and lift me up and give me the encouragement I need.

Meg: That’s great. I completely agree with you that it is a battle in your own mind and setting the tone with your household, with your family. I agree with what you said. It lives in here, in our minds all the time, 24/7 it wakes us up in the middle of the night. But it’s not a transfer across the pillowcase to your spouse. It’s not a transfer through the breakfast table that they understand all the complexities that go through our heads as entrepreneurs.

So thank you for that. It is a battle in your own mind. You have come from the army, where there’s a tremendous amount of training and support camaraderie. Who do you rely on now as you’re building your new business in order to have that stamina and recharge your batteries every day?

Nina: Well, of course, you know, I depended on you a lot from my ACP mentor, so that was everything for me, just to have that connection. I felt like there were times where I could come and say, like, oh, you know, I was really struggling and just really express how I was genuinely feeling at that time. And you would just be there to, you know, to build me up, to say, okay, you know, some of that is normal.

You’re not the only one. And so that was good to hear, just to know, like, when you’re in the novice phase, that you’re going to experience some of these feelings. So that was good to know. And also, I depend on the local community resources. If they were having, like, a Kauffman program, like, I did the pitch competition, so I depend on those programs and get around like minded people, that was the biggest thing.

And get around people who really wanted to see me get started, who wanted to see me win. A lot of people just wanted me. I felt like a lot of people saw me as prey. Like, oh, she’s new, so she’s gonna need help, so let’s just go get her. And they’re all, you know, like, oh, you need to pay me $50,000.

Well, I’m not making $50,000, so how am I going to pay you $50,000? So just getting around the right people, and I think that’s another thing that I had to learn, like, how to sift people and make sure that those people had my best intentions. Like, I understand mentorship. Like, you have to do your part, your mentor has to do their part, but you want to make sure that it’s a win-win relationship, not just, like, it’s all about me and not about you. So I just look for those relationships, people who really wanted to see me win.

Meg: Yeah, the discernment to know who to lean on and then who to avoid. And you and I have talked a little bit about that, that competition that exists not only between us as humans, but sometimes between women. It’s surprising how protective or how. Well, use the word vicious, because I’ve seen it and you have, too. Some of the attacks that happen because I’m assuming they are lacking the confidence to embrace competition.

It’s a natural part of doing business. We’re going to run into each other and maybe we have overlap, but that doesn’t mean that we have to be. It doesn’t have to turn into mortal Kombat.

Nina: Right, right, right. So that was new for me. I didn’t really. Yeah. Or maybe I was oblivious to it, so I didn’t think that it would happen or I definitely didn’t think it would happen with people that I know.

Meg: Yeah

Nina: I just presume that we can all be on the same playing field, learn, share. But no, that was not the case.

Meg: Well, I think the word abundance is what you and I share. And then the flip side is where many people come from, they look at the world with scarcity and you have to fight and be protective. And you and I are more abundance minded.

Talk about then the business that you are starting and what it means to you, how long this has been brewing in your head. And now here it is coming to fruition. So tell us about your practice.

Nina: Awesome. So the name of my company is Copeland’s coaching and consulting, where I provide professional development training. And I think for me, when I realized I was transitioning out, I was like, what?

I went back to my passion. And before I joined the military, I majored in social work, and that was my passion. So helping people change their mindset, helping people to realize that regardless of the environment that you’re in, you don’t have to stay there if you just have the right people. So I love social work and I love helping people. And I start looking at, well, what was I doing in the military?

And although I was a logistics officer for 20 years, that was not my passion. That’s not what I wanted to do. And I went out and got this master’s in procurement and acquisition management, but that was nothing. My passion. So I started saying, so what is my passion?

As I rediscovered myself and rebound my new identity and transitioning out, and it was again helping people. And I had been doing that even though I was in the military. I would set up, like, leadership development programs, making sure people were being equipped outside of, like, their leadership, because I know that you’re not going to be upfront with your leaders, so having a safe space outside that you can go to and get mentorship. And I said, well, maybe that’s what I really want to do. And so I decided to start a professional development training company where that’s exactly what I do.

I go out and give workshops and provide training for teams and also for executives. And also I’m developing a women executive coaching program so that women executives can stop suffering in silence and have a safe place where they can be vulnerable and be around like minded women, where they can receive the. So that they can be a better executive, so that they can groom their team to be a stronger force as well.

Meg: And an exciting event is coming up in just two and a half weeks.

Nina: Yeah.

Meg: So talk about the preparation for the event that I will be flying out to Virginia to join you for the panel discussion and the fireside chat. It’ll be a great day on Saturday. It’s hard to put it all together and have it come to fruition successfully. And I know you’ve been, I won’t say struggling. There are elements of it, though, that are a struggle.

The whole process of putting together an event like that, walk through the steps so that the listeners can understand that what they’re going through, too, and it’s logical progression. How have you gotten through to this point? And we’re just two weeks away now.

Nina: Yes. So I would say just from the beginning, again, that battle in your head, is it going to work?

Are people going to come? You know, can you do this? And so that was hard. And I’m like, but I have everything. I knew what I wanted to talk about.

I kind of knew some of the pieces and who I wanted, but it was just a matter of, you know, do, did you select the right location or, you know, how people feel about the location? And I’m having it at a school this year. And I was like, oh, the people. Are people gonna want to pay to come to a school? But it’s like, people don’t.

People are coming for you, for your environment and what you’re going to provide. It’s not about the location, per se. I mean, it’s not like I was having it in a bad place, you know, something like that. But in my mind, I’m like, oh, just the small thing, the location. So I just had to really map out what it is I wanted to do, lay it out.

And every so often, I would just brief someone like, hey, this is what it looks like. This is what I’m trying to do and just get a post check, like, okay, am I on the right track with this? And so they help out with those post checks. And also, I think I just had to get laser focused and I had to get out of my own way. That was the biggest thing.

Get out of my own way. Stop overthinking things, like all the things I wanted to do, like nail what it is you want to do. What’s your instate, how do you want people to feel? What do you want to educate people on and how do you do that? And just doing that backwards planning has helped me and has calmed me down a lot to where I’m not as anxious about everything.

And I think with the promotion, that was hard too. Being in the military, like, we never really posted or talked about what we’re doing and being on Facebook and social media. So this, that was a struggle for me to just come out on social media, post videos of me talking. That was hard, but I did it. So I’m very proud that all the things that I was afraid to do, I did.

And I had to get over some of those mental battles of things that I just wasn’t accustomed to do because I was in the military. And we have, yeah, we just don’t do it. And so now it was like, but you’re in a different light. You’re doing something different, and you have to be visible, you have to be seen so that people wouldn’t know who you are. Like how you put on the bed, but you’re gonna hide in the back.

Meg: No hiding. And to your point, it is another transition, it’s another learning phase. As an entrepreneur, some of us are introverts. Some of us are extroverts. Getting the message out means getting out of your comfort zone.

And even if you’re an extrovert, if you’ve never done it before, you’ve never done it before. And it can. And to your point about the location, it being a smaller detail, but how it took over your mind for a while and distracted you from the content and the deliverable, which is really the nuts and bolts of it. This is why you and I visit as often as we do to talk about getting out of our own way and putting things in their place, ascribing to them the right amount of energy and responsibility or importance so that then you can really focus your time, the bigger the bulk of your time on what are your participants going to take away, how are they going to feel? To your point, how are they going to feel and what is a deliverable that when they walk away, they’ll say, that was worth every penny.

It was worth every second that I was there.

Yes. It’s hard to get through all of that when you’ve never done it before. So I’m excited to come out and be part of the event and see how the, how the fireside chat, I think it’s great, too, that although it’s an event geared towards women, you’ve got a panel of men as well.

Nina: I do. I do. And I’m really excited about how that’s really going to take place. And so that event is what the panel is about, shifting perspectives. And I thought it would be an amazing time to talk about the shifting of perspectives from, I mean, just the generational, the way you may have your perspective of women and men back in the eighties or nineties is not the same as in 2024.

And so how that is taking place in our community today, where maybe the women are not as domesticated as they were back in the eighties and nineties, but how is that affecting relationships today?

And so I think just having that open conversation and to hear it from a male’s perspective versus a woman perspective is going to be everything. So I’m excited about it.

Meg: Good. The conversation, the dialogue between men and women, there’s a reason why that book exists that women are from Venus and men are from Mars, because we look at things so differently. But it’ll be very valuable to hear that interaction, that exchange with these men who are involved to get their perspective.

Do you think that there’s a difference around the country of engagement between men and women around the country? Throwing that out there, it’s just off the top of my head. It makes me wonder if you’re in the northeast while you’re kind of middle, actually, you’re Virginia. If you see differences around the country, the interactions between men and women.

Nina: Yes. Yes, I definitely do. I think it’s where more women are taking on more leadership roles, and that’s across the country. And I think there’s some silent resentment that is taking place. And we see that in the military a lot, where if there was the female leader and she had, you know, a spouse or husband, I just should say, you know, we can all sit down and talk, whether it was black, white, whatever your race was. We had the same issues where we were the leader and we were the one as the breadwinner, and but we were in the struggle at home with our spouses, and they had a problem with us showing up as the leader, as the breadwinner as all these things, and you’re going to work and you’re getting all these accolades and they’re at home with the kids.

That was problem. And a lot of people, I mean, it just resulted to divorce.

Meg: So it’s, do you think it’s just as prevalent in civilian life as it is in the military?

Nina: That’s what I’m looking into now, but I do still feel like it’s the perspective. Right. So now the woman is the breadwinner, sometimes the leader, and where it’s not the men as the leader, then I still feel like there’s some resentment, silent resentment. I think it’s different when there’s the male, and he may have some. That same level of superiority, you know, in jobs, but when there is no superiority, like the wife is the worker and the man is out, I think it’s a challenge.

Meg: There are some clear cut examples in the work that I do where Milwaukee is a very unusual marketplace because of the number of female breadwinners who come to me with a business idea. And, you know, my other career here is I work with people who want to get into business ownership via franchising. And around the country, it’s pretty even. But in Milwaukee, it’s very skewed towards the woman being the breadwinner and the decision maker, the leader in this notion that diversification through business ownership. And so I don’t see as many angry, or I was gonna say angry men or that silent resentment.

It is there, but it’s one market where I know it’s skewed in a different direction. You have dealt with it for so many years in the military.

Now coming out of the military and into civilian life, I assume you’re going to stay in Virginia.

Yes, right now I am. And so with you migrating out of the military, how is your husband coming around to the reality that this business is taking off and this is who Nina is?

Nina: Yeah, I’m just a high, ambitious woman.

Meg: And there it’s a struggle. You have it in your marriage, and I’ve had it not with my husband now, but relationships in the past. This is a real thing. It’s such as, oh, I love you, and you’re such a strong woman, and get out there and crush it in your career. And then when you do, then there’s that resentment. And for me, it came in the form of two divorces to men who said they love strong women.

And then I just totally folded under. I guess it’s their own mental pressure that they couldn’t deal with it.

Nina: Right, right. No, I understand. I think now I see just a little shift. So I always try to bring him in the fold and say, okay, this is a family business. This not about me. But I feel like he still is. Like, that’s your thing. In his mindset.

That’s still your thing. That’s still my baby. It’s still what I want to do. And so when I’m looking back and I’m like, okay, so you joining? No. No. Okay. I’m just going to go ahead and move on. And so I think it just still looks like silent resentment.

Meg: Yeah, well. And I didn’t realize that it was there. Both of those other relationships ended because that’s what they wanted. I didn’t realize that it was a thing for men to have to say one thing and mean something else. I take people at their word, and so I never saw those divorces coming. And now with Pete, he said the same thing, but he demonstrates every day that he is, he doesn’t get into my business, but he is a vocal advocate and supporter of that.

It took him some time to get there, but now he’s like my brand champion. He’s the flag waving Meg supporter.

Yeah. So it did take some time. I think it also took some time for me to trust.

I’m sure. I’m sure that he wouldn’t walk away.

Yeah. Yeah. Because you’re fierce, and I am, too. And this is. We succeed in business because we don’t take no for an answer and we don’t give up. Are there words of wisdom that you would like to impart onto people who are thinking, maybe now isn’t a great time to start a business? What do you think about starting a business now or anytime?

Nina: Well, I think, as the old cliche says, there’s never a perfect time, and it’s really never a perfect time. I would say you just have to decide what it is you want in that season of life. So what is it that you want right now in this season? And if that’s something that you want, you have to make up in your mind. That’s what you want, and you have to pursue it.

Otherwise, you’ll always be waiting for this perfect time or this fictitious time that you have in your mind or that you’re making up that it’s never going to happen. So I think it’s just a matter of doing it. I think that’s what I’ve done. Like. No, that’s what you want to do, so you have to do it and you have to make it work.

And it’s not going to be easy, but you have to just stick to it and see it through.

Meg: Yeah. Making it work every day.

Nina: And you got, oh, and my biggest thing, too, Meg, is that, that fear, failure, it’s, it’s both fears. The fear of failure and the fear of success.

Like, you don’t want to fail. You think that everything is going to be right. So like, for me, I know I just want to walk out the door and have this major multimillion dollar business. Well, you’re never going to have no multimillion dollar business if you never get started with the business.

Not going to happen. But in my mind, I was like, how can I walk out the door and then just mash it? In order to smash it, you have to fail.

Meg: Ah, interesting. I was wondering how you’re going to tie fear into success. But I get it. I get it. You have this big, hairy, audacious goal and you want to crush it right from the very beginning. I was talking to a couple of my colleagues yesterday about starting over again with a new marketing strategy, and they said, we really need this to work right away. I said, it’s going to take time, and I understand that it’s going to take time and it’s going to take money.

There’s a learning curve. But to your point, if we don’t get started, then we’ll never get this marketing issue sorted out, right?

Nina: Right. I mean, it’s just like the thing, the cliche of what we see, like the baby, you know, taking the steps and falling and crawling and then finally getting up to walk. Business is literally the same way.

You’re going to fall, you’re going to, you’re going to do some things wrong. And, oh, I had the same thing with the conference. I’m like, well, am I going to do it right? Well, you’re probably going to make some mistakes along the way, but you should, in order to get it right, you’re going to have to go through something and you’re going to fail. But that fear failure was like, oh, I don’t want to fail.

You know, failure is just not an option. Don’t do it. But I think that’s another fictitious thing. Like, we think that we’re not gonna fail, but failure is a part of it. Failure is a part of it.

Meg: But also what you and I share is the ability to pivot pretty quickly.

Nina: Yeah.

Meg: And I think that was instilled in you in the army is if it isn’t working, then you need to pivot and do something differently. The definition of insanity, of course, being doing the same thing over and over again, hoping or expecting that you’ll have a different outcome. You have to have the ability to shake it off, dust yourself off and do it differently, try new things.

Nina: Right, right. So just getting out of your head, just realizing, like, it’s a part of it. And then the people that you may be comparing, because it also leads to comparison. The people that you’re comparing yourself to, they have gone through some failures as well. You may not see it at the multimillion dollar stage, but they have gone through some failures.

Meg: Every step along the way to get to that multimillion dollar success level. It’s a path that’s fraught with peril, but you have to walk it. I was thinking the other day about Princess Diana walking through that field of landmines and the confidence that obviously, they had been cleared, but just that demonstration of confidence that this is Princess Diana. If they didn’t get every last mourner out of there, this is. This is going to be a bad thing.

So we. We walk through these battles. Some of the. Some of the mortar fire is fictitious, but you still, as an entrepreneur, have that fear of failure every day. And yet getting into battle, the field of battle, you’re not going to win if you don’t take the steps to go.

So congratulations on taking the steps and being so close now to this first big event. And I can’t wait to fly out and we’ll go drink wine and have some fun before Saturday hits. Nina, thank you so much for being on. I know that when I first brought this idea up to you, you were like, what? I don’t need to.

What do I have to say? But your story is meaningful and it’s real, and you don’t have the benefit of a franchise around you. You are out there clawing your way every day. It has been my pleasure to work with you, and I’m called a mentor, but I need to publicly say that this last year has meant so much to me because of what I’ve learned from you. So thank you for being just as much a mentor to me as I’ve been able to be for you.

Nina: Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you for allowing me this opportunity to come on. And I tell you in the beginning that I typically do shy away. And I was like, oh. That perfectionism in me was like, oh, I need to have all these things together before I get on your show.

Just to realize I don’t.

Meg: Real conversations with real people. That’s what people, that’s what my listeners like about this, is that I do ask you questions that in my mind, I think, oh, should I ask her that? But if I don’t, then it doesn’t get out there for the listener to hear and know that they’re normal and it’s all real. And it’s a pleasure to have your point of view.

So thanks again for being on the show.

Nina: Thank you. Awesome. Well, I’m excited.