From Corporate Refugees to Franchise Trailblazers: The 4 Pillars Behind REPM Group’s Success
Did you know that the secret to franchise success might have nothing to do with the brand itself—or even the money behind it? In this episode, you’ll hear how two industry insiders built a franchise powerhouse not by chasing trends, but by focusing on something most people totally overlook. Plus, there’s a surprising reason they say the best franchisees aren’t who you think they are…and it may just change how you look at your own entrepreneurial path. Want to know what it is that actually makes or breaks a franchise for both owners and investors? Stick around—this one’s got some curveballs.
My special guests are Nick and Rob
Nick Sheehan and Rob Kambruzzi are experienced professionals in the franchising industry, each with over a decade of hands-on involvement in launching, operating, and expanding franchise brands. Nick began his career by founding and growing his own franchise business shortly after college, gaining practical insight into both franchisor and franchisee roles. Rob’s expertise is rooted in real estate and franchise development, having worked with major companies to streamline the process of opening and scaling franchise locations. In 2020, they combined their skills to establish REPM Group, a comprehensive franchise development firm built on four core pillars: marketing, sales, site development, and operational support. Today, they lead a team of over 50 employees and work with a diverse portfolio of franchise brands, focusing on building strong, supportive systems that help new franchisees succeed and grow within the industry.
If the people on Main Street—the franchisees—are not seeing dollars to their bottom line and making money, everything else doesn’t matter.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover how starting a franchise business can unlock new opportunities and set you up for lasting success.
- Learn how to smoothly transition from corporate life to entrepreneurship without losing momentum or confidence.
- Uncover the key elements that make a franchise model not just good, but truly successful and scalable.
- Understand why prioritizing franchisee success is the secret sauce to building a thriving franchise system.
- Explore the latest franchising trends post-COVID that will shape your strategy and keep your business ahead.
Smooth Corporate To Franchise Transition
Shifting from a corporate role to owning a franchise requires adapting skills to a more hands-on, entrepreneurial setting. Utilizing existing business knowledge while embracing franchise systems can ease this transition. Proper guidance and preparation help new franchise owners gain confidence and navigate challenges effectively.
The resources mentioned in this episode are:
- Listen to the Item 24 podcast by the REPM Group for expert insights and free information on franchising, including emerging brands and franchisee success stories.
- Contact the REPM Group if you are a brand needing help opening units, looking to franchise, or seeking franchise development support.
- Attend FranChoice conferences to experience brands like The Milkshake Factory and network with franchise professionals.
- Join Meg’s monthly networking group if you have been placed in a franchise, to discuss challenges and share experiences with other franchisees.
- Reach out to the REPM Group if you are an emerging or established brand interested in partnering for franchise growth, operational support, or marketing services.
- Tune in to the Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz for real stories of self-employment and business ownership. Contact Meg Schmitz to schedule a free, no-obligation call and get insider insights on franchise opportunities. Use the form at the FREE Agent Podcast if you’d like to be considered as a guest on the Show!
Subscribe now to our FREE Franchise Insights to get every new podcast episode delivered to your inbox! Free Subscription. No spam. Not sold to others. Unsubscribe anytime.
Click to Take the Leap into the full interview transcript of the Free Agent Podcast, Episode 7.18, with Meg Schmitz and her guest, Nick Sheehan and Rob Cambruzzi
Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz – Guests: Nick Sheehan, Founder & Managing Partner of REP’M Group, and Rob Cambruzzi, Founder & CEO of REP’M Group
Meg
Hello, everyone, and welcome to or welcome back to the free agent podcast. My name is Meg Schmitz. I am your lovely host.
The discussion here is all about free agency and taking control over your financial future. Just a little aside, I decided to call it this. My nephew was an NFL free agent, and he had to work twice as hard as anybody else to find himself a new team.
So I think for those of you who are in transition, that’s the mindset that I want you to have, is you’re a free agent. You got to work hard.
Anyway, the mission of this show is to share inspiring conversations with real people who took the leap into self employment, business ownership, franchising, and freedom. From corporate refugees and executives tired of the desk job. To entrepreneurs and investors looking to share camaraderie and inspiration through their own business journey.
My podcast seems to spotlight on real people who stepped into the unknown to control over their destiny and became their own boss. Today I got two guys who embody the free agent spirit. Rob Kambruzzi, Nick Sheehan. Thank you. Thank you for, like, after five years of chasing you guys down, finally coming on my podcast.
Rob
Happy to be here. And it was not five years, Meg.
Meg
Okay, well, I was. I was the recipient of this little gem at the last conference. Let’s turn it around and let her go. So I had to win the prize fighting ring in order to get you to come on the show, but that’s fine.
Rob
Well deserved. Well deserved.
Nick
That was the qualification, I guess.
Meg
Well, if the qualification is having happy placements with your brands, which is really what that all stems from is the number of people that I placed earlier this year with a repm brand.
I was there in Minnesota at the Franchoice office with Jeff Elgin and Trent Halverson. That cold January day. Was it 2021?
Nick
It might have been, yeah. 2020, yeah.
Meg
Oh, that’s right. It was right before the pandemic. So I like to say that I was there when this whole thing was really taking off.
Talk about the REPM Group, how you two came together as business partners and really, what’s the foundation of the REPM Group and what made you get started?
Rob
Yeah, well, kind of tying back to your theme. Nick and I had both had jobs, right. And we both have been in the franchise space for a while prior to jumping off the ledge and doing what we love to help others do.
So it kind of started back in 2017. I was. I was in a job working for a big corporation in the franchise space called Driven Brands. And, you know, certain things happened. I was done. I was ready to move on.
We all get to that point sometimes. And so I left the company and started a company called rpm. And it was really to help people open franchises.
Some of the more difficult things in brick and mortar franchising is really the opening process. And my background was real estate. And so I saw the franchise component, I saw the real estate component tying them together as a great path to get out of the corporate world and start something.
So launched that franchise arm of helping people open their units in 2017. And that snowballed as we went into a bunch of other openings. We kept seeing people going through different processes and noticing that not everyone was running a good process, and there was opportunity to go help people, you know, go through a proper due diligence to assess a franchise to make sure that it’s a good fit for them and for the franchisor.
So through that, you know, opening and just experiencing things that. That we kept seeing people be told the wrong stuff, you know, maybe different expectations that weren’t being set right. We thought, hey, we can do this franchise development stuff pretty good, and we should launch that arm.
So that was in 2017. Kind of started dabbling in it. And then from there, by the way, Nick and I had known each other for a long time. We were always at the same conferences and everything else.
And I kept begging. I’m like, Nick, Can you come over, man? How can we figure out how to work together? I just loved his style. He always had a great knack for all this stuff.
And so from there, it was really 2020. Nick gave me a call, and he’s like, hey, man, the company I was with, St. Gregory at the time is dissolved. And, Nick, maybe you tell the rest of the story.
Nick
Yeah, it’s crazy. So, yeah, Rob and I now have known each other over a decade, which is crazy to think. Means we’re getting a little bit old, Rob. But nonetheless.
Yeah. So to Rob’s point, we were at conferences together all the time. And my, you know, to quickly go back. You know, I got into franchising out of college. I was a franchisor in the ink and toner business right out of school when I was 22, franchised it when I was 23, and then grew it to 35 locations in about four years or so and just really cut my teeth on entrepreneurship.
Franchising and love those two things. And I learned I really hated the ink and toner business, so I was happy to get out of it when I did, but it was the best springboard you could have, right?
So that happened. And then, um, I actually did, Meg, what you did for a very short period of time with a company called the Entrepreneur Source, because I was from New York and I. I was back in Connecticut, that point, and they’re headquartered there.
And so I started doing that for about 14 months and got to know a lot about emerging franchise brands and just learned a lot about it from that perspective, and then went into meeting St. Gregory
and then went into meeting St. Gregory Development Group through that process, and that really changed my understanding of emerging brands.
They were growing rapidly. They had helped grow a pretty big national brand called Title Boxing Club. They were starting their own brand called Cycle Bar, and it just snowballed from there. They were about two years old when I joined them in 2014, and I was there for five years.
And, you know, they founded Cycle Bar. They were bought out by private equity, both Cycle Bar and St. Gregory. And I think we launched about 30 brands over that period of time when I was there.
I became a franchisee of Cycle Bar, I eventually had 15 locations at one point or another. So just learn both sides of the fence.
And when St. Gregory dissolved at the end of 19, it couldn’t have been a better time to say, Rob, let’s really go do this for real. And there was already a foundation with RPM and Rob’s background in franchise sales and mine, and let’s just put gasoline on the fire.
And so at that point, we decided to rebrand as the REPM Group and create what officially now is our four pillars, which, you know, has been a big part of us becoming a full franchise development firm and morphing into that.
And here we are over five years later, and, you know, we’ve got, I think, 15 brands now, Rob. We’re working with and about 55, 60 employees. And so it’s been a fun run so far.
Meg
You’ve grown well, you’ve grown nicely. And from where I sit, as a. As a franchise consultant, I really appreciate the foundation and those four pillars.
Let’s talk about that, because for my placements, I only work with referrals. So I’ve got the skinny little pipeline. And they all came from somebody who trusts me, so I need to turn them over to somebody I trust. And REPM Group has always done a great job for my candidates.
So talk about your four pillars and how important those are.
Nick
So I’ll start off with just what they are and then Rob and I can fill in here a little bit about, I think, the why behind it.
So there’s four pillars. The first one is called Brandom and Brandom is our marketing arm, if you will, and branding division.
So when you look at what’s important when you have an emerging brand, it’s how you’re going to market it, how are you going to get candidates in the door and how are you going out to the channels we need to go after in order to get good candidates coming through the process?
And how do you tell the story, right? How do you mold the brand into what might be a regional brand today? And it’s trying to be national.
And so all those things go into it as we look at it. And we typically work with the brand for up to six months before we launch it to make sure it’s ready to go to market. And so we have six people in that division.
Our Grow Em arm is really our franchise sales arm. And so that’s where candidates come in and they go through the whole sales process around, I like to say, the education process around the brand that they’re, they’re looking at.
And so that’s a really thorough process that, you know, I learned through my five plus years at St. Gregory. And then Rob, obviously through Driven Brands, had a lot of expertise there too. So we morphed some of that together.
And then Rob, I’ll actually let you take Build Them and Scale Them because Build Them was a big part of what. I mean, what is RPM?
Rob
Yeah, so. So on the brick and mortar side, right? Not all of our brands are brick and mortar, but on that side it’s difficult. And this is really where a lot of people can go wrong in the franchise space.
They buy, you know, a concept, maybe they don’t follow the exact path and they, you know, build a Taj Mahal or whatever it is.
So Build Them is really there to help guide them through this phase of maybe it’s 12 months to really get open and to get open on time and on budget. That’s the goal.
So in franchising, we have an item seven that’s kind of the bible in the FDD that says how much should this investment cost? And so, you know, keeping that in line and keeping it really within the model is essential to a great launch. So that’s what Build Them does.
And then the last piece, Scale Them, which is really, you know, we always talk about differentiators, looking for differentiators and brands. For our brand, Scale Em is a big differentiator.
It is an operational LED arm. It’s actually led by Jason Ryan, who’s our third partner. Jason was my old boss. He was the president of Mako and COO there.
We have several other folks from Driven that have joined us. The general counsel at Driven is our general counsel. And then also Rebecca Horowitz, she was a vice president of operations there under Meineke.
And so that team is very well seasoned in helping franchisors grow. At Driven, we’ve taken a lot of smaller brands and expanded them. We’ve taken larger brands and kind of revamped them as 2.0.
So a lot of experience operationally there. And the goal is to set up the franchisor to be able to shoulder all of the growth that REPM can help deliver.
And at the end of the day, there’s a lot that goes behind that. It’s not just, hey, do they have the right people? It’s, do they have the right processes? Are they capitalized right? Do they know what that proforma looks like and the cash needed along the path of when they need to put that money in?
And so ultimately, if you look and step back from the REPM portfolio and you look at how we’re structured, it’s really to help these brands grow and grow confidently and help validate and lend trust.
It’s about tying back to what you said earlier, Meg. Like, all these things create, you know, a really great brand and it’s really good people. And that all ties into, hey, when your candidates come through or someone looks at our brands, they can feel that this is built on the right foundation and they can trust it.
Meg
There’s so much there. Yeah, yeah. The trends in franchising over the years have been a lot of venture capital, private equity money coming in.
Explain how the relationship works with those companies that you represent. Is there a fiduciary responsibility there or financial investment? Is there any ownership of those brands?
Nick
Yep. So brands.
Rob
Go ahead.
Nick
No, I was going to just say it depends on the brands. So there’s a wide range of brands that we look at, but ones that we would onboard as partners. Some are not even franchise today and they might have, you know, three or four or five locations in one little area or city or region.
We might actually help them financially initially or, you know, they might be financially well capitalized to do it themselves, but we’ll work with them to launch the brand, franchise the brand, take it to market without any venture capitalists or private equity typically attached to those brands.
And then we have brands that are already part of venture capitalists or already a part of private equity. And working with those kind of concepts is different. But we understand how to work with both. We’ve done both and see it.
And I think a big thing that we find is why both groups like to work with us. Obviously emerging brands understand we know how to do that and we do it well and we have all the resources so that they don’t have to go hire all those people out of the gate and they can really spend their time on what we know is the most important factor, which is opening franchisees and making them successful and laser focus on that.
The private equity I think hires us for a reason because they’re looking for growth obviously and to meet their investors’ demands on what they’re trying to achieve.
But more importantly, I think they see that I like to say we’re on the front line of getting them great candidates and knowing that process. And we’ve always worked well with them because they know we’re good at what we’re good at and they’re good at what they’re good at.
And so we work really well together, hand in hand for that reason. And I think both sides have worked incredibly well for us from a partnership perspective. But they’re different, right on a scable franchisor.
Meg
And so with your four pillars, is it correct that a brand may work with one or two or all four of your pillars, but it’s not necessary from the get go that all four pillars are in place?
Rob
Yeah, if you think of it like this, really the one that is separated out is the Build Them component. So there are brands that we do not sell for that we help open.
And then on the franchise sales arm or the Grow Them arm, really the Brandom piece and the Scale Em piece come with it. For us to feel confident in helping brands grow the right way and making sure that they’re supported, we don’t want the franchisor guessing at how to handle growth.
It should be a very well-oiled system. So when people buy in, they know what they should expect and they get that on the backside.
And so in order to sell franchise the right way, we feel like those components have to be there. It has to be a really well-designed system and they have to have really good content.
That’s why it’s all in house for us. In order to have that connectivity between the marketing team on what they put together, what the sales team sells, and then the operations component comes in on the backside.
And really behind the scenes, the franchisee doesn’t see that. The franchisor is the one that’s getting the support to then help the franchisee.
And so that’s a really important piece to have all connected so that, from the first piece of material they see to years deep into their experience as a franchisee, it’s all been developed as one.
Meg
Which is super helpful for an emerging brand or a brand that isn’t even, as you said, a franchise yet.
My husband does a lot of angel investing and his office is downstairs. He’ll come up and say, does this look like a franchise to you?
And so it’s great for me to be able to hand off those concepts. I usually call Trent at Franchoice Corporate and let him figure out who should get that referral, what type of business it is.
But for me to be able to say to my husband and other people who are looking at these opportunities every day, I can be a funnel to send those companies confidently to you so that they make fewer mistakes and launch more rapidly, as you said, much more confidently as well.
So that those first-in franchisees can get over the pioneering cutting edge concern. I think that’s a whole different breed of person who’s an early adopter.
But to your point, they need to have that confidence that the brand really knows who they are and what they do.
Rob
Yeah, it’s super important.
The other thing it does, Meg, is a lot of brands that launch or maybe have some scale, they feel like they have to hire a lot of people out of the get go to be in house. Right. And there’s a huge expense with that.
And so REPM helps bridge some of that. Of course they’re going to have their own in-house folks eventually, but they don’t need C-Suite right away. They don’t need a franchise sales arm right away. They don’t need a marketing person, they don’t need someone running their construction and project management.
We shoulder all that expense. So actually as an FSO we’re not as profitable probably as some of the other ones because we deploy all these tools and assets towards the brands, but they get the benefit which allows the brands to focus really where they should, which is on the system and the processes for the franchisee to get better and elevate their same store sales.
And so that just breeds success. And back to your original point, like private equity, do you guys sometimes get involved? It all ties back to, hey, the better the franchisees do post us selling a franchise, the better we all do. So we see as a good investment in that matter.
Meg
Totally necessary. Nick, were you going to chime in on a point there?
Nick
No, I just think what Rob said is accurate. Like when you really look at the success of franchisees, nothing else matters, really.
I mean, you can have all of the right people involved. You know, I always look at, like, you can hire the best leadership team in the world and have the best private equity group in your eyes, that is the best partner, have all of the money in the world at your fingertips to go invest into infrastructure, technology, whatever a franchisor thinks they need.
But if the people on Main Street, the franchisees, are not seeing dollars to their bottom line and making money, everything else doesn’t matter. It all goes by the wayside.
And so I think that a lot of franchisors miss the mark on that sometimes because they’re focusing on things arguably that are very important. But really, reality is what I’ve always seen is a lot of the best brands focus on one thing and one thing only really early, and it’s sales.
Like, you know, Mark Cuban said it best, without a sale, you don’t have a business. And so with that said, let’s drive as much sales as you can. Everything else will follow.
Operational support, tech. You’ll have the infrastructure to be able to build because you’ll have the money to do it. And I think that’s got to be the number one focus out of the gate.
Obviously, you have to have a great market and a great product and all of those things. But I think you really got to focus in on that to make sure franchisees are driving enough money in their doors early on so they’re not burning through cash and they run out of cash. Let’s be honest, that can happen if you don’t be careful.
Meg
So, yeah, with the brands that, because you guys have so much experience, some of them are dirty brands, dirty jobs is what I mean. Some of them are more white collar.
It all comes back down to the founder and the visionary. I’m sure that because we have made some mistakes in some of our investments, we misread the founder and visionary and their commitment to the long-term success of the brand.
Are there certain qualities that you are looking for in the brands or the franchise founders that you’re aligning with?
Nick
100%.
Rob
Yeah. Nick, take that one.
Nick
Yeah, I think there’s a couple things. So the one test is, obviously the first test is do we like the brand and do we think the economics are good? So initial calls are let’s meet the founders via Zoom. Let’s see if they have their act together at least from an hour call and let’s talk a little bit about the high-level economics and see if there’s something here.
And then as we get into another call or three calls, it’s starting to go into what we talked about. The we see the PLUS, which is people like us. And what we mean by that is do they fit the mold of this, which is can I feel like I can go on vacation with these founders for two days and feel like I could do that over and over and over again?
And really what I mean by that is simply we need to know that they align with our culture and that if we’re going to go into business together, it’s a lot like a marriage, right? You have to feel as though it’s going to work long term and it’s just not the honeymoon phase. That’s going to be great. And then all of a sudden a year later you’re divorced. We don’t want that.
And so those are big things that we look at from a business perspective. I’ll just add two more things. You know, when we actually look at a business, I always look at the number one thing, which is the space they’re in.
And there’s two kind of things we look at. Whether it’s, to your point, a dirty kind of job type of business, or it’s a really sexy business, that so much doesn’t matter to us. It’s more about is it in white space where it’s something new in a category of franchising that doesn’t almost exist today or is very limited?
Or B, is it an age-old business. And the example I always use is like a painting concept, but it has a new spin on something where they could create some white space within a pretty crowded market.
And so those are the things we look at: the economics of the business, like how much does it cost to open this and what are the potential earnings on it? If that doesn’t match up to our criteria, it’s probably not going to work. Because dollars trump everything, to be honest.
And the final thing is the founders, which we already talked about. But if they don’t have the right head on their shoulders… One thing I know about emerging brands is the leadership and the founders. And so if that doesn’t feel like they can lead and inspire—big word I use, inspire—franchisees, it’s probably not going to be a good fit.
And so those are big factors for us. Rob, sorry, I don’t know if you want to add anything.
Rob
No, I mean it always ties back to the, you know, GSD—get shit done. That’s the mentality that we look for in anyone that works here. We actually have an award every year that we give out that is that award.
And so, you know, it’s the same thing for our brand partners. It’s folks that really have drive, that really want to expand and want to take their business to the next level, but are smart enough to know that they don’t know everything.
And much like ourselves, we surround ourselves with the best talent we can possibly afford and find and hire. And so if our brands are open to that and they want the same, we think it’s a win-win.
Because we all know we’re not the best. But when you surround yourself with great people, great talent, and you have a really good concept that makes money, it just works.
Meg
It just works well. With 60 people, whatever the number was, what a growth trajectory you’ve been on just in five years. That’s a huge amount of infrastructure. I’m sure that payroll lift is a heavy one every pay period, but you’ve got the heart in the right place.
In order to get those franchisees over the hurdle, get them to profitability, get them to break even. Are there trends in particular industries that REPM—like there’s home franchise concepts, they’re anything around the home. Do you have particular lanes, industries that you’re particularly focused on for brands that you’re bringing in?
Nick
Yeah, I mean, I’d say we’ve done a great job in the health and wellness space.
Rob
We’ve done a lot in that space.
So when it comes to, you know, the technical side of it with corporate practice, medicine and things like that, we’ve got it down.
But that doesn’t mean that that’s the only space. We have early childhood education, we have home services like you mentioned.
In our model, it’s not kind of a, hey, this is the only part that we cover. We’re kind of a one-size-fits-all. Because a lot of the things that occur for a brick-and-mortar brand are similar to operating a van-based concept.
It’s just you don’t have the real estate component. And so operationally it’s still back to what Nick says. It’s sales, it’s making sure you have the right people, it’s following the processes, it’s the SOPs, it’s the technology, it’s the call centers.
All these things all come together and are not much different when you start looking at the type of different segments. But, you know, we named a couple there. I’m sure I probably missed some, Nick.
Nick
Yeah, well, I don’t know if you missed any actually, but I’ll add a part that I think is important. Just to your point, Meg, just following trends. It’s funny because a lot of this goes up and down over time, but Covid really shifted a lot of what was interesting for candidates.
Before Covid I saw brick and mortar being by far and away the number one category for candidates to really focus their energy on buying. And home service was still a big part of it, but it was not anywhere near what it is post Covid.
We all know the rise of people doing things in their home and getting services within their home have really increased over the last five years.
But now I’m starting to see another trend, which is the rise of brick and mortar again. I’m seeing a lot of brands and a lot of new emerging brands that weren’t really there during Covid. Entrepreneurs are starting to create new concepts, which is cool to see.
Because I did see through Covid, a lot of businesses were just trying to survive. There wasn’t a lot of innovation going on around brick and mortar and some other new franchise brands. Let’s be honest, they were closed, right? They couldn’t open their doors. And if they did, not a lot of people were coming in.
And so now I think that where we are today, there’s an interesting shift happening and it’s great to see both home service and retail thriving a bit more again.
Rob
Yeah, I’ll add to that. Just tying it back to probably what you see, which is different level of investors, right.
You have someone that’s coming out of corporate, they need to create revenue right away and they need to basically replace their income. That’s tough to do with a brick-and-mortar concept.
And so if we don’t play in that service-based space that’s non brick and mortar, we’re not covering that corner.
But on the flip side, we have recently taken on a couple brands that are on the larger end spectrum of folks that have disposable income, are looking for a little bit more unique investments out there other than the stock market.
And something that’s been around for a long time is, hey, let’s get a solid business that also has a real estate play to it, right. And let’s play that angle.
So some of our newer brands, you know, you can get in, can even own some of the real estate, but they’re very high AUVs. I mean they push into the $2 million plus marks or even higher in some cases in the entertainment space.
We just signed recently Dog Stop, which is one that has many different facets to taking care of dogs. But it’s a large facility. So, you know, there’s—I think we have a little bit for everyone.
Meg
Yeah, something for everyone.
What I am really focusing on is that experiential retail. How is it different? How is it more engaging?
So I always get asked what—and I’m doing a webinar this afternoon, it’s always a topic—what are the hot trends? Well, kids, pets and parents, needed education, enrichment and entertainment during the pandemic.
Don’t forget the dog. Well, and don’t forget the parents too. I’ve got, my dad is 93 and my mom is 87 and they want to be relevant. So they’re also looking for those opportunities to experience something that’s different from just getting a haircut.
Rob
Yep.
Meg
Does that fall in line? I think it does. As I think about your portfolio of companies, you’ve got some really great experiential concepts.
Nick
The experiential retail is really what we focus on because if it’s going to be in retail—I mean think about in today’s world, you can click a button and pretty much get any service or product you want through Amazon or wherever.
And so if people are going to get in their car, use up gas, and actually take 10, 15, 20 minutes to get there and come back, it better be a good experience. Otherwise they’re not coming back.
And that’s the foundation of it all. That four-wall experience better be engaging, it better be inviting. And it better be a good product or service that they want to come back to. And that’s a really key element I think as we look at brands.
Rob
The other side to that is we always kind of focus on the upper tier of that, right? More of like a higher quality or, you know, it’s just next tier up.
So you look at brands like The Milkshake Factory, right? The ingredients and everything, the experience of it. And I know, Meg, you probably had one of those milkshakes in Cincinnati with us.
But like, that puts a smile on people’s faces. You look at Monster Mini Golf, like if you go in there with your family, it’s a great experience, right?
And so at the end of the day, it’s about creating a lot of value for the consumer that drives revenue for the franchisee and then for the franchisor. And it snowballs into, hey, you can evolve a brand.
So that is the foundation of what we look for—these higher end concepts that provide good value but also can drive smiles.
Meg
And so in that same vein, what’s fun for the two of you running this operation that you’ve got? It’s big now, you’ve grown significantly. How do you maintain the fun? Because I know you two guys—how do you maintain the fun?
Rob
Well, I think it’s probably a bit of our culture, but like, I personally, I love this stuff, right?
If I’m not creating and I’m not growing, I feel like I’m bored and I probably drive people nuts. So I’m always looking for the next brand, I’m always trying to figure out a new angle on how to help franchising in general.
Taught us back. Like, I really want my kids to be in this industry, right? We’re young guys now, we’re getting older, but we want this to be around for a long time.
We want to create something that’s really unique, that helps elevate franchising in general. At least that’s my vision.
And so in order to do so, finding new projects, finding new brands, finding new concepts that haven’t even been in the franchise space really energizes me and I think keeps me young.
Nick
So I would say that, yeah, I mean, what I love about franchising and what we do is every day there’s something new. There’s a new brand to look at, there’s a new whatever happening within franchising.
There’s a new industry that’s being created. There are new things that are happening with the brands that we’ve already partnered with. That’s really exciting and it keeps it exciting.
I think for me, the other side is you know Rob said culture, it’s a huge component. I’ve studied culture over the years on how important it is. And it is something that is from the top down, leadership creates the culture, whether good or bad.
I think we have a great culture. I think our employees would agree. But most importantly, it’s hiring the right people around you that are a part of that culture.
And, you know, I’ve seen it from a lot of leadership too. You spend more time with your people you work with than you do with your family, which is a reality in most cases. And so you better enjoy working with those people because you’re spending a lot of time with them.
And I truly believe our team is like our family. And so it’s like going to work every day is actually fun. It’s actually getting to engage with my friends and family. And what’s better than that? When you get along and you have a good time together—and by the way, we do a lot of great things together and have a lot of success together. So those are just the bonuses.
Rob
We’re not shy to celebrate wins. I mean, that’s a big part of it, right?
Meg
How many of your employees are on site and then how many or who is virtual and how are you managing that?
Rob
Yeah, so the majority of them are virtual. So we have an office in Cornelius, which is just north of Charlotte. At any given time, there could be 10, 12 people in here or there could be three.
We definitely travel a lot and we work remote quite a bit. But back to the Covid situation—before that we had two offices and we were gearing up to host a lot more people in there.
And so since then, we’ve evolved like many other businesses and found that the investment in that space just hasn’t been worth it. We’re able to function through Zoom and everything else that we have, all cloud based now that everyone can just jump in and be a part of.
We certainly get to see each other on the road a lot though. And I think that’s a good part of our culture. But there’s a lot of folks that do a lot of good work that don’t get to see Meg every six months. And so we try to host different events to keep them tied in.
Meg
You guys do such a great job at the Franchoice conferences and it was super fun to have The Milkshake Factory there.
I live way out in the country in Wisconsin. It would be perfect here. I don’t know if there are any Milkshake Factories coming, but that was a super experience.
I’ve had so many successful, happy placements with your brands. I’m waiting for some of them to come back and do more, but they have been happy and that is such an important element for me.
I have a networking group that meets monthly and anyone I’ve ever placed has the opportunity to text me or call me anytime, but they can join that group. And we talk about challenges, what happened during the pandemic.
But to your point, we all shifted into this virtual reality that actually made us a lot more productive. And it’s much easier to create lasting relationships via Zoom than anyone really thought would be possible. So kudos to you for growing your organization. I didn’t realize it was that virtual.
Rob
Yeah, that’s—it’s gotten. I mean, you have to remember. Franchise sales started in ’19 just with one brand, but then when Nick came on, it went to four brands and we rebranded and then it was Covid right away.
So I don’t think our franchise sales arm knows much different. Our project management group is more so in the office, but because we’re nationwide you have to have coverage. And so we have folks literally from out in California.
Meg
Yeah, well, in the realm of improvement—and that’s why I have my podcast and now you have yours. Please talk about your podcast and the format and the purpose.
Nick
Yeah, so we called it Item 24, because obviously there’s 23 items in an FDD. And we figured there’s a lot that lives—we call it beyond the page of the FDD.
And really the purpose was, I think, mostly one main thing, which was to get more positive information out there to share with the community that is in franchising.
I’ve seen through the—man, almost 20 years I’ve been in franchising now—there is a lot of information out there. A lot of good, some not so good. But we wanted to make sure that we can provide a lot of great free information for candidates looking at franchises, for emerging brands looking to become a franchise, for seasoned brands that are looking to build on their brand again and be version 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever.
And, you know, just have a lot of experts on there that can provide that information. And so that was the purpose of it, when we really thought about the “why” for Item 24.
Meg
How many episodes have you done?
Nick
I just recorded—we just recorded four more. I think we’re up to now eight or ten, and we are doing about four or five a month.
Meg
So nice having that library, because it is beyond the page. There’s so much context to owning a business. There’s a lot of context to owning a franchise, and theoretically it should be easier, but still—it’s a business in a community and there are always going to be variables that come out of left field and you never saw that coming.
So I applaud you for getting that out. I’ve listened to a few already and I like the fact that some of them are short and crisp and direct and concise. It’s a great deliverable.
So for anyone who’s listening, pull up—and we’ll try to get it in the show notes too—maybe we can do a link to your podcast. That’s great content that you’re putting out, and necessary.
Rob
Well, thank you.
Nick
Yes, we would love more followers and appreciate it, Meg.
Meg
Yeah, well, so I’m on season seven. I don’t know, you guys might be episode 200, but I’m getting about right there.
Rob
That’s really good, Meg.
Meg
That is a lot of feedback from people who in the beginning said, don’t script it, don’t ask the same questions over and over again, just don’t, let it go, just be a human and interview the other party for interesting points.
So it’s great when you have your own podcast because you know who your listener is and what their FAQs, what their areas of concern are. That’s why you’re addressing the point.
Nick
Yeah, super.
Meg
What else? What else is going on over there?
Nick
New brands.
Meg
Yeah, new brands.
Rob
Yeah. So I mentioned Dog Stop—that’s one of our newer ones that we are launching. One of the things that we have seen—I’m not saying this is all of our brands, but recently we’ve taken a couple brands on that have decent footing already in franchising.
So, like Dog Stop with 40 plus locations. You got a couple others like Monster, I mentioned, you got Health Source with a hundred. So we’re seeing some brands come to us saying, hey, we’d like to be a part of REPM as well in that segment.
But like I mentioned right before we jumped on, we just came off on a welcome call of new brands. Can’t divulge the name yet, but we try to find different twists to concepts that have already been done and that kind of creates a new fresh take on things.
And so I’ll say it involves infrared, it involves an ancient old way of working out, and it’s been around for a long time—the Pilates method. So it’ll be a cool one, but we’ll wait to tease that one a little bit later.
Meg
Well, you were telling me a little bit about it before we started recording. I would like to make sure that you get one up here.
Actually, now that I’ve moved more or less out of the Chicago area and up to Wisconsin full time, I’m in the middle. If I look out here, I’ve got 230 acres of prairie property. It’s one of our businesses.
Because we’re way out in the middle of nowhere, I couldn’t get to a Pilates studio, so I bought a reformer. I’ve got everything I need at home. And I have been—actually, I’ve been a long-time studier of the method.
My instructor moved to Washington and this is before Covid, so I hadn’t seen her in about 10 years. This is totally down a rabbit hole. But around my birthday in March, her husband wished me happy birthday via LinkedIn.
And I reached back out and said, oh, how is Diana? She jumped into the conversation and said, hey, if you want to work out, we can do so virtually.
So I now have my—she used to train Olympic athletes out in Colorado once a year, she would go for about a month. So I’ve got one of the best of the best, and you’re learning all about this now that you’ve got the brand. So stay true, stay true to the method. That’s all I would ask.
Nick
Yeah, that’s the most important part.
Rob
Yeah, it’s a fun one though. So we’re excited about that.
Meg
Good. Is there anything else that you guys want to talk about? I wanted to make sure that we brought in the podcast. You’re writing anything? You doing anything else that’s putting material out there? I think you’re doing just such a phenomenal job with REPM and how you built this business.
Nick
Yeah, I think I’ll just end with this. I think we try to do a combination of what is necessary in today’s world to get the REPM Group out there and our brands, which is a combination of a lot of virtual things, but we’re firm believers in—Rob alluded to it earlier—about travel.
We go to so many conferences per year, and a big part of that is staying in front of everyone, but also really making sure that we are the true guerrilla marketers.
Going out there in the community and driving what we believe is our story. And making sure as many people can hear it so that we get the results that we want, but do it in a responsible way.
And that’s what we do every day. And it’s a lot of work, but, you know, we said earlier it’s a lot of fun and we enjoy it. So need some recharging of the batteries now and again, but both Rob and I just had some vacations, so we’re ready to go coming into the fall.
Rob
Selfless plug. We’re always looking for new brands, whether they need help opening their units or they are looking to franchise. That’s one of the things that we’re always trying to find, the next best one or help others get to where they need to get to, which is opening doors, ringing cash registers.
Meg
Yeah. And doing it the right way with integrity and responsibility, and those are some of the fundamentals that attract me to you guys and your brands.
I’m glad that you were able to take vacation and get a little time away. It’s way more fun than working for somebody else, isn’t it?
Rob
100%, it is. Yeah.
Meg
It’s kind of a pain sometimes, being the one where the buck stops all the time. My husband and I talk about The Hard Thing About Hard Things. You don’t have to read the book. The hard thing about hard things is somebody’s got to fricking do it.
Nick
Yeah.
Rob
Well, there’s no elevator. You have to take the steps.
Meg
I wish there were shortcuts, but, you know, I think as you build out a really good team and you build out a really good business, you can feel confident in taking time off because you know you have that support behind you and you’ve built it.
Rob
And so, you know, part of our evolution was, can we take a European vacation and will things keep humming? And the answer is yes. So I’m happy to report that.
But I think you have to always be working on it, and that doesn’t mean we really ever stop. I think Nick and I will always pick up the phone late at night or on the weekends, and that’s probably just kind of that culture that we love.
Meg
Yeah. Accessibility. Well, you guys are doing a great job. I love what I tasted with The Milkshake Factory. I love the experiences.
I’m sure that you revel in that as you’re bringing brands on, going out and testing the product to make sure that the customer experience, consumer experience is going to be a great one.
So kudos to you and thank you for finally saying yes and being available, both of you, to come on the show today.
Rob
Thank you. And we really appreciate all the stuff that you’ve done with us throughout the years of growing it. So it’s been great to have you as a friend.
Meg
Thank you.
Nick
Yeah. Thank you, Meg, so much. Really appreciate the time.
Meg
See you soon.
Rob
See you soon.
Nick
All right, thanks.
Free Agent Podcast with Meg Schmitz – Guests: Nick Sheehan, Founder & Managing Partner of REP’M Group, and Rob Cambruzzi, Founder & CEO of REP’M Group
Meg
Hello, everyone, and welcome to or welcome back to the free agent podcast. My name is Meg Schmitz. I am your lovely host.
The discussion here is all about free agency and taking control over your financial future. Just a little aside, I decided to call it this. My nephew was an NFL free agent, and he had to work twice as hard as anybody else to find himself a new team.
So I think for those of you who are in transition, that’s the mindset that I want you to have, is you’re a free agent. You got to work hard.
Anyway, the mission of this show is to share inspiring conversations with real people who took the leap into self employment, business ownership, franchising, and freedom. From corporate refugees and executives tired of the desk job. To entrepreneurs and investors looking to share camaraderie and inspiration through their own business journey.
My podcast seems to spotlight on real people who stepped into the unknown to control over their destiny and became their own boss. Today I got two guys who embody the free agent spirit. Rob Kambruzzi, Nick Sheehan. Thank you. Thank you for, like, after five years of chasing you guys down, finally coming on my podcast.
Rob
Happy to be here. And it was not five years, Meg.
Meg
Okay, well, I was. I was the recipient of this little gem at the last conference. Let’s turn it around and let her go. So I had to win the prize fighting ring in order to get you to come on the show, but that’s fine.
Rob
Well deserved. Well deserved.
Nick
That was the qualification, I guess.
Meg
Well, if the qualification is having happy placements with your brands, which is really what that all stems from is the number of people that I placed earlier this year with a repm brand.
I was there in Minnesota at the Franchoice office with Jeff Elgin and Trent Halverson. That cold January day. Was it 2021?
Nick
It might have been, yeah. 2020, yeah.
Meg
Oh, that’s right. It was right before the pandemic. So I like to say that I was there when this whole thing was really taking off.
Talk about the REPM Group, how you two came together as business partners and really, what’s the foundation of the REPM Group and what made you get started?
Rob
Yeah, well, kind of tying back to your theme. Nick and I had both had jobs, right. And we both have been in the franchise space for a while prior to jumping off the ledge and doing what we love to help others do.
So it kind of started back in 2017. I was. I was in a job working for a big corporation in the franchise space called Driven Brands. And, you know, certain things happened. I was done. I was ready to move on.
We all get to that point sometimes. And so I left the company and started a company called rpm. And it was really to help people open franchises.
Some of the more difficult things in brick and mortar franchising is really the opening process. And my background was real estate. And so I saw the franchise component, I saw the real estate component tying them together as a great path to get out of the corporate world and start something.
So launched that franchise arm of helping people open their units in 2017. And that snowballed as we went into a bunch of other openings. We kept seeing people going through different processes and noticing that not everyone was running a good process, and there was opportunity to go help people, you know, go through a proper due diligence to assess a franchise to make sure that it’s a good fit for them and for the franchisor.
So through that, you know, opening and just experiencing things that. That we kept seeing people be told the wrong stuff, you know, maybe different expectations that weren’t being set right. We thought, hey, we can do this franchise development stuff pretty good, and we should launch that arm.
So that was in 2017. Kind of started dabbling in it. And then from there, by the way, Nick and I had known each other for a long time. We were always at the same conferences and everything else.
And I kept begging. I’m like, Nick, Can you come over, man? How can we figure out how to work together? I just loved his style. He always had a great knack for all this stuff.
And so from there, it was really 2020. Nick gave me a call, and he’s like, hey, man, the company I was with, St. Gregory at the time is dissolved. And, Nick, maybe you tell the rest of the story.
Nick
Yeah, it’s crazy. So, yeah, Rob and I now have known each other over a decade, which is crazy to think. Means we’re getting a little bit old, Rob. But nonetheless.
Yeah. So to Rob’s point, we were at conferences together all the time. And my, you know, to quickly go back. You know, I got into franchising out of college. I was a franchisor in the ink and toner business right out of school when I was 22, franchised it when I was 23, and then grew it to 35 locations in about four years or so and just really cut my teeth on entrepreneurship.
Franchising and love those two things. And I learned I really hated the ink and toner business, so I was happy to get out of it when I did, but it was the best springboard you could have, right?
So that happened. And then, um, I actually did, Meg, what you did for a very short period of time with a company called the Entrepreneur Source, because I was from New York and I. I was back in Connecticut, that point, and they’re headquartered there.
And so I started doing that for about 14 months and got to know a lot about emerging franchise brands and just learned a lot about it from that perspective, and then went into meeting St. Gregory
and then went into meeting St. Gregory Development Group through that process, and that really changed my understanding of emerging brands.
They were growing rapidly. They had helped grow a pretty big national brand called Title Boxing Club. They were starting their own brand called Cycle Bar, and it just snowballed from there. They were about two years old when I joined them in 2014, and I was there for five years.
And, you know, they founded Cycle Bar. They were bought out by private equity, both Cycle Bar and St. Gregory. And I think we launched about 30 brands over that period of time when I was there.
I became a franchisee of Cycle Bar, I eventually had 15 locations at one point or another. So just learn both sides of the fence.
And when St. Gregory dissolved at the end of 19, it couldn’t have been a better time to say, Rob, let’s really go do this for real. And there was already a foundation with RPM and Rob’s background in franchise sales and mine, and let’s just put gasoline on the fire.
And so at that point, we decided to rebrand as the REPM Group and create what officially now is our four pillars, which, you know, has been a big part of us becoming a full franchise development firm and morphing into that.
And here we are over five years later, and, you know, we’ve got, I think, 15 brands now, Rob. We’re working with and about 55, 60 employees. And so it’s been a fun run so far.
Meg
You’ve grown well, you’ve grown nicely. And from where I sit, as a. As a franchise consultant, I really appreciate the foundation and those four pillars.
Let’s talk about that, because for my placements, I only work with referrals. So I’ve got the skinny little pipeline. And they all came from somebody who trusts me, so I need to turn them over to somebody I trust. And REPM Group has always done a great job for my candidates.
So talk about your four pillars and how important those are.
Nick
So I’ll start off with just what they are and then Rob and I can fill in here a little bit about, I think, the why behind it.
So there’s four pillars. The first one is called Brandom and Brandom is our marketing arm, if you will, and branding division.
So when you look at what’s important when you have an emerging brand, it’s how you’re going to market it, how are you going to get candidates in the door and how are you going out to the channels we need to go after in order to get good candidates coming through the process?
And how do you tell the story, right? How do you mold the brand into what might be a regional brand today? And it’s trying to be national.
And so all those things go into it as we look at it. And we typically work with the brand for up to six months before we launch it to make sure it’s ready to go to market. And so we have six people in that division.
Our Grow Em arm is really our franchise sales arm. And so that’s where candidates come in and they go through the whole sales process around, I like to say, the education process around the brand that they’re, they’re looking at.
And so that’s a really thorough process that, you know, I learned through my five plus years at St. Gregory. And then Rob, obviously through Driven Brands, had a lot of expertise there too. So we morphed some of that together.
And then Rob, I’ll actually let you take Build Them and Scale Them because Build Them was a big part of what. I mean, what is RPM?
Rob
Yeah, so. So on the brick and mortar side, right? Not all of our brands are brick and mortar, but on that side it’s difficult. And this is really where a lot of people can go wrong in the franchise space.
They buy, you know, a concept, maybe they don’t follow the exact path and they, you know, build a Taj Mahal or whatever it is.
So Build Them is really there to help guide them through this phase of maybe it’s 12 months to really get open and to get open on time and on budget. That’s the goal.
So in franchising, we have an item seven that’s kind of the bible in the FDD that says how much should this investment cost? And so, you know, keeping that in line and keeping it really within the model is essential to a great launch. So that’s what Build Them does.
And then the last piece, Scale Them, which is really, you know, we always talk about differentiators, looking for differentiators and brands. For our brand, Scale Em is a big differentiator.
It is an operational LED arm. It’s actually led by Jason Ryan, who’s our third partner. Jason was my old boss. He was the president of Mako and COO there.
We have several other folks from Driven that have joined us. The general counsel at Driven is our general counsel. And then also Rebecca Horowitz, she was a vice president of operations there under Meineke.
And so that team is very well seasoned in helping franchisors grow. At Driven, we’ve taken a lot of smaller brands and expanded them. We’ve taken larger brands and kind of revamped them as 2.0.
So a lot of experience operationally there. And the goal is to set up the franchisor to be able to shoulder all of the growth that REPM can help deliver.
And at the end of the day, there’s a lot that goes behind that. It’s not just, hey, do they have the right people? It’s, do they have the right processes? Are they capitalized right? Do they know what that proforma looks like and the cash needed along the path of when they need to put that money in?
And so ultimately, if you look and step back from the REPM portfolio and you look at how we’re structured, it’s really to help these brands grow and grow confidently and help validate and lend trust.
It’s about tying back to what you said earlier, Meg. Like, all these things create, you know, a really great brand and it’s really good people. And that all ties into, hey, when your candidates come through or someone looks at our brands, they can feel that this is built on the right foundation and they can trust it.
Meg
There’s so much there. Yeah, yeah. The trends in franchising over the years have been a lot of venture capital, private equity money coming in.
Explain how the relationship works with those companies that you represent. Is there a fiduciary responsibility there or financial investment? Is there any ownership of those brands?
Nick
Yep. So brands.
Rob
Go ahead.
Nick
No, I was going to just say it depends on the brands. So there’s a wide range of brands that we look at, but ones that we would onboard as partners. Some are not even franchise today and they might have, you know, three or four or five locations in one little area or city or region.
We might actually help them financially initially or, you know, they might be financially well capitalized to do it themselves, but we’ll work with them to launch the brand, franchise the brand, take it to market without any venture capitalists or private equity typically attached to those brands.
And then we have brands that are already part of venture capitalists or already a part of private equity. And working with those kind of concepts is different. But we understand how to work with both. We’ve done both and see it.
And I think a big thing that we find is why both groups like to work with us. Obviously emerging brands understand we know how to do that and we do it well and we have all the resources so that they don’t have to go hire all those people out of the gate and they can really spend their time on what we know is the most important factor, which is opening franchisees and making them successful and laser focus on that.
The private equity I think hires us for a reason because they’re looking for growth obviously and to meet their investors’ demands on what they’re trying to achieve.
But more importantly, I think they see that I like to say we’re on the front line of getting them great candidates and knowing that process. And we’ve always worked well with them because they know we’re good at what we’re good at and they’re good at what they’re good at.
And so we work really well together, hand in hand for that reason. And I think both sides have worked incredibly well for us from a partnership perspective. But they’re different, right on a scable franchisor.
Meg
And so with your four pillars, is it correct that a brand may work with one or two or all four of your pillars, but it’s not necessary from the get go that all four pillars are in place?
Rob
Yeah, if you think of it like this, really the one that is separated out is the Build Them component. So there are brands that we do not sell for that we help open.
And then on the franchise sales arm or the Grow Them arm, really the Brandom piece and the Scale Em piece come with it. For us to feel confident in helping brands grow the right way and making sure that they’re supported, we don’t want the franchisor guessing at how to handle growth.
It should be a very well-oiled system. So when people buy in, they know what they should expect and they get that on the backside.
And so in order to sell franchise the right way, we feel like those components have to be there. It has to be a really well-designed system and they have to have really good content.
That’s why it’s all in house for us. In order to have that connectivity between the marketing team on what they put together, what the sales team sells, and then the operations component comes in on the backside.
And really behind the scenes, the franchisee doesn’t see that. The franchisor is the one that’s getting the support to then help the franchisee.
And so that’s a really important piece to have all connected so that, from the first piece of material they see to years deep into their experience as a franchisee, it’s all been developed as one.
Meg
Which is super helpful for an emerging brand or a brand that isn’t even, as you said, a franchise yet.
My husband does a lot of angel investing and his office is downstairs. He’ll come up and say, does this look like a franchise to you?
And so it’s great for me to be able to hand off those concepts. I usually call Trent at Franchoice Corporate and let him figure out who should get that referral, what type of business it is.
But for me to be able to say to my husband and other people who are looking at these opportunities every day, I can be a funnel to send those companies confidently to you so that they make fewer mistakes and launch more rapidly, as you said, much more confidently as well.
So that those first-in franchisees can get over the pioneering cutting edge concern. I think that’s a whole different breed of person who’s an early adopter.
But to your point, they need to have that confidence that the brand really knows who they are and what they do.
Rob
Yeah, it’s super important.
The other thing it does, Meg, is a lot of brands that launch or maybe have some scale, they feel like they have to hire a lot of people out of the get go to be in house. Right. And there’s a huge expense with that.
And so REPM helps bridge some of that. Of course they’re going to have their own in-house folks eventually, but they don’t need C-Suite right away. They don’t need a franchise sales arm right away. They don’t need a marketing person, they don’t need someone running their construction and project management.
We shoulder all that expense. So actually as an FSO we’re not as profitable probably as some of the other ones because we deploy all these tools and assets towards the brands, but they get the benefit which allows the brands to focus really where they should, which is on the system and the processes for the franchisee to get better and elevate their same store sales.
And so that just breeds success. And back to your original point, like private equity, do you guys sometimes get involved? It all ties back to, hey, the better the franchisees do post us selling a franchise, the better we all do. So we see as a good investment in that matter.
Meg
Totally necessary. Nick, were you going to chime in on a point there?
Nick
No, I just think what Rob said is accurate. Like when you really look at the success of franchisees, nothing else matters, really.
I mean, you can have all of the right people involved. You know, I always look at, like, you can hire the best leadership team in the world and have the best private equity group in your eyes, that is the best partner, have all of the money in the world at your fingertips to go invest into infrastructure, technology, whatever a franchisor thinks they need.
But if the people on Main Street, the franchisees, are not seeing dollars to their bottom line and making money, everything else doesn’t matter. It all goes by the wayside.
And so I think that a lot of franchisors miss the mark on that sometimes because they’re focusing on things arguably that are very important. But really, reality is what I’ve always seen is a lot of the best brands focus on one thing and one thing only really early, and it’s sales.
Like, you know, Mark Cuban said it best, without a sale, you don’t have a business. And so with that said, let’s drive as much sales as you can. Everything else will follow.
Operational support, tech. You’ll have the infrastructure to be able to build because you’ll have the money to do it. And I think that’s got to be the number one focus out of the gate.
Obviously, you have to have a great market and a great product and all of those things. But I think you really got to focus in on that to make sure franchisees are driving enough money in their doors early on so they’re not burning through cash and they run out of cash. Let’s be honest, that can happen if you don’t be careful.
Meg
So, yeah, with the brands that, because you guys have so much experience, some of them are dirty brands, dirty jobs is what I mean. Some of them are more white collar.
It all comes back down to the founder and the visionary. I’m sure that because we have made some mistakes in some of our investments, we misread the founder and visionary and their commitment to the long-term success of the brand.
Are there certain qualities that you are looking for in the brands or the franchise founders that you’re aligning with?
Nick
100%.
Rob
Yeah. Nick, take that one.
Nick
Yeah, I think there’s a couple things. So the one test is, obviously the first test is do we like the brand and do we think the economics are good? So initial calls are let’s meet the founders via Zoom. Let’s see if they have their act together at least from an hour call and let’s talk a little bit about the high-level economics and see if there’s something here.
And then as we get into another call or three calls, it’s starting to go into what we talked about. The we see the PLUS, which is people like us. And what we mean by that is do they fit the mold of this, which is can I feel like I can go on vacation with these founders for two days and feel like I could do that over and over and over again?
And really what I mean by that is simply we need to know that they align with our culture and that if we’re going to go into business together, it’s a lot like a marriage, right? You have to feel as though it’s going to work long term and it’s just not the honeymoon phase. That’s going to be great. And then all of a sudden a year later you’re divorced. We don’t want that.
And so those are big things that we look at from a business perspective. I’ll just add two more things. You know, when we actually look at a business, I always look at the number one thing, which is the space they’re in.
And there’s two kind of things we look at. Whether it’s, to your point, a dirty kind of job type of business, or it’s a really sexy business, that so much doesn’t matter to us. It’s more about is it in white space where it’s something new in a category of franchising that doesn’t almost exist today or is very limited?
Or B, is it an age-old business. And the example I always use is like a painting concept, but it has a new spin on something where they could create some white space within a pretty crowded market.
And so those are the things we look at: the economics of the business, like how much does it cost to open this and what are the potential earnings on it? If that doesn’t match up to our criteria, it’s probably not going to work. Because dollars trump everything, to be honest.
And the final thing is the founders, which we already talked about. But if they don’t have the right head on their shoulders… One thing I know about emerging brands is the leadership and the founders. And so if that doesn’t feel like they can lead and inspire—big word I use, inspire—franchisees, it’s probably not going to be a good fit.
And so those are big factors for us. Rob, sorry, I don’t know if you want to add anything.
Rob
No, I mean it always ties back to the, you know, GSD—get shit done. That’s the mentality that we look for in anyone that works here. We actually have an award every year that we give out that is that award.
And so, you know, it’s the same thing for our brand partners. It’s folks that really have drive, that really want to expand and want to take their business to the next level, but are smart enough to know that they don’t know everything.
And much like ourselves, we surround ourselves with the best talent we can possibly afford and find and hire. And so if our brands are open to that and they want the same, we think it’s a win-win.
Because we all know we’re not the best. But when you surround yourself with great people, great talent, and you have a really good concept that makes money, it just works.
Meg
It just works well. With 60 people, whatever the number was, what a growth trajectory you’ve been on just in five years. That’s a huge amount of infrastructure. I’m sure that payroll lift is a heavy one every pay period, but you’ve got the heart in the right place.
In order to get those franchisees over the hurdle, get them to profitability, get them to break even. Are there trends in particular industries that REPM—like there’s home franchise concepts, they’re anything around the home. Do you have particular lanes, industries that you’re particularly focused on for brands that you’re bringing in?
Nick
Yeah, I mean, I’d say we’ve done a great job in the health and wellness space.
Rob
We’ve done a lot in that space.
So when it comes to, you know, the technical side of it with corporate practice, medicine and things like that, we’ve got it down.
But that doesn’t mean that that’s the only space. We have early childhood education, we have home services like you mentioned.
In our model, it’s not kind of a, hey, this is the only part that we cover. We’re kind of a one-size-fits-all. Because a lot of the things that occur for a brick-and-mortar brand are similar to operating a van-based concept.
It’s just you don’t have the real estate component. And so operationally it’s still back to what Nick says. It’s sales, it’s making sure you have the right people, it’s following the processes, it’s the SOPs, it’s the technology, it’s the call centers.
All these things all come together and are not much different when you start looking at the type of different segments. But, you know, we named a couple there. I’m sure I probably missed some, Nick.
Nick
Yeah, well, I don’t know if you missed any actually, but I’ll add a part that I think is important. Just to your point, Meg, just following trends. It’s funny because a lot of this goes up and down over time, but Covid really shifted a lot of what was interesting for candidates.
Before Covid I saw brick and mortar being by far and away the number one category for candidates to really focus their energy on buying. And home service was still a big part of it, but it was not anywhere near what it is post Covid.
We all know the rise of people doing things in their home and getting services within their home have really increased over the last five years.
But now I’m starting to see another trend, which is the rise of brick and mortar again. I’m seeing a lot of brands and a lot of new emerging brands that weren’t really there during Covid. Entrepreneurs are starting to create new concepts, which is cool to see.
Because I did see through Covid, a lot of businesses were just trying to survive. There wasn’t a lot of innovation going on around brick and mortar and some other new franchise brands. Let’s be honest, they were closed, right? They couldn’t open their doors. And if they did, not a lot of people were coming in.
And so now I think that where we are today, there’s an interesting shift happening and it’s great to see both home service and retail thriving a bit more again.
Rob
Yeah, I’ll add to that. Just tying it back to probably what you see, which is different level of investors, right.
You have someone that’s coming out of corporate, they need to create revenue right away and they need to basically replace their income. That’s tough to do with a brick-and-mortar concept.
And so if we don’t play in that service-based space that’s non brick and mortar, we’re not covering that corner.
But on the flip side, we have recently taken on a couple brands that are on the larger end spectrum of folks that have disposable income, are looking for a little bit more unique investments out there other than the stock market.
And something that’s been around for a long time is, hey, let’s get a solid business that also has a real estate play to it, right. And let’s play that angle.
So some of our newer brands, you know, you can get in, can even own some of the real estate, but they’re very high AUVs. I mean they push into the $2 million plus marks or even higher in some cases in the entertainment space.
We just signed recently Dog Stop, which is one that has many different facets to taking care of dogs. But it’s a large facility. So, you know, there’s—I think we have a little bit for everyone.
Meg
Yeah, something for everyone.
What I am really focusing on is that experiential retail. How is it different? How is it more engaging?
So I always get asked what—and I’m doing a webinar this afternoon, it’s always a topic—what are the hot trends? Well, kids, pets and parents, needed education, enrichment and entertainment during the pandemic.
Don’t forget the dog. Well, and don’t forget the parents too. I’ve got, my dad is 93 and my mom is 87 and they want to be relevant. So they’re also looking for those opportunities to experience something that’s different from just getting a haircut.
Rob
Yep.
Meg
Does that fall in line? I think it does. As I think about your portfolio of companies, you’ve got some really great experiential concepts.
Nick
The experiential retail is really what we focus on because if it’s going to be in retail—I mean think about in today’s world, you can click a button and pretty much get any service or product you want through Amazon or wherever.
And so if people are going to get in their car, use up gas, and actually take 10, 15, 20 minutes to get there and come back, it better be a good experience. Otherwise they’re not coming back.
And that’s the foundation of it all. That four-wall experience better be engaging, it better be inviting. And it better be a good product or service that they want to come back to. And that’s a really key element I think as we look at brands.
Rob
The other side to that is we always kind of focus on the upper tier of that, right? More of like a higher quality or, you know, it’s just next tier up.
So you look at brands like The Milkshake Factory, right? The ingredients and everything, the experience of it. And I know, Meg, you probably had one of those milkshakes in Cincinnati with us.
But like, that puts a smile on people’s faces. You look at Monster Mini Golf, like if you go in there with your family, it’s a great experience, right?
And so at the end of the day, it’s about creating a lot of value for the consumer that drives revenue for the franchisee and then for the franchisor. And it snowballs into, hey, you can evolve a brand.
So that is the foundation of what we look for—these higher end concepts that provide good value but also can drive smiles.
Meg
And so in that same vein, what’s fun for the two of you running this operation that you’ve got? It’s big now, you’ve grown significantly. How do you maintain the fun? Because I know you two guys—how do you maintain the fun?
Rob
Well, I think it’s probably a bit of our culture, but like, I personally, I love this stuff, right?
If I’m not creating and I’m not growing, I feel like I’m bored and I probably drive people nuts. So I’m always looking for the next brand, I’m always trying to figure out a new angle on how to help franchising in general.
Taught us back. Like, I really want my kids to be in this industry, right? We’re young guys now, we’re getting older, but we want this to be around for a long time.
We want to create something that’s really unique, that helps elevate franchising in general. At least that’s my vision.
And so in order to do so, finding new projects, finding new brands, finding new concepts that haven’t even been in the franchise space really energizes me and I think keeps me young.
Nick
So I would say that, yeah, I mean, what I love about franchising and what we do is every day there’s something new. There’s a new brand to look at, there’s a new whatever happening within franchising.
There’s a new industry that’s being created. There are new things that are happening with the brands that we’ve already partnered with. That’s really exciting and it keeps it exciting.
I think for me, the other side is you know Rob said culture, it’s a huge component. I’ve studied culture over the years on how important it is. And it is something that is from the top down, leadership creates the culture, whether good or bad.
I think we have a great culture. I think our employees would agree. But most importantly, it’s hiring the right people around you that are a part of that culture.
And, you know, I’ve seen it from a lot of leadership too. You spend more time with your people you work with than you do with your family, which is a reality in most cases. And so you better enjoy working with those people because you’re spending a lot of time with them.
And I truly believe our team is like our family. And so it’s like going to work every day is actually fun. It’s actually getting to engage with my friends and family. And what’s better than that? When you get along and you have a good time together—and by the way, we do a lot of great things together and have a lot of success together. So those are just the bonuses.
Rob
We’re not shy to celebrate wins. I mean, that’s a big part of it, right?
Meg
How many of your employees are on site and then how many or who is virtual and how are you managing that?
Rob
Yeah, so the majority of them are virtual. So we have an office in Cornelius, which is just north of Charlotte. At any given time, there could be 10, 12 people in here or there could be three.
We definitely travel a lot and we work remote quite a bit. But back to the Covid situation—before that we had two offices and we were gearing up to host a lot more people in there.
And so since then, we’ve evolved like many other businesses and found that the investment in that space just hasn’t been worth it. We’re able to function through Zoom and everything else that we have, all cloud based now that everyone can just jump in and be a part of.
We certainly get to see each other on the road a lot though. And I think that’s a good part of our culture. But there’s a lot of folks that do a lot of good work that don’t get to see Meg every six months. And so we try to host different events to keep them tied in.
Meg
You guys do such a great job at the Franchoice conferences and it was super fun to have The Milkshake Factory there.
I live way out in the country in Wisconsin. It would be perfect here. I don’t know if there are any Milkshake Factories coming, but that was a super experience.
I’ve had so many successful, happy placements with your brands. I’m waiting for some of them to come back and do more, but they have been happy and that is such an important element for me.
I have a networking group that meets monthly and anyone I’ve ever placed has the opportunity to text me or call me anytime, but they can join that group. And we talk about challenges, what happened during the pandemic.
But to your point, we all shifted into this virtual reality that actually made us a lot more productive. And it’s much easier to create lasting relationships via Zoom than anyone really thought would be possible. So kudos to you for growing your organization. I didn’t realize it was that virtual.
Rob
Yeah, that’s—it’s gotten. I mean, you have to remember. Franchise sales started in ’19 just with one brand, but then when Nick came on, it went to four brands and we rebranded and then it was Covid right away.
So I don’t think our franchise sales arm knows much different. Our project management group is more so in the office, but because we’re nationwide you have to have coverage. And so we have folks literally from out in California.
Meg
Yeah, well, in the realm of improvement—and that’s why I have my podcast and now you have yours. Please talk about your podcast and the format and the purpose.
Nick
Yeah, so we called it Item 24, because obviously there’s 23 items in an FDD. And we figured there’s a lot that lives—we call it beyond the page of the FDD.
And really the purpose was, I think, mostly one main thing, which was to get more positive information out there to share with the community that is in franchising.
I’ve seen through the—man, almost 20 years I’ve been in franchising now—there is a lot of information out there. A lot of good, some not so good. But we wanted to make sure that we can provide a lot of great free information for candidates looking at franchises, for emerging brands looking to become a franchise, for seasoned brands that are looking to build on their brand again and be version 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever.
And, you know, just have a lot of experts on there that can provide that information. And so that was the purpose of it, when we really thought about the “why” for Item 24.
Meg
How many episodes have you done?
Nick
I just recorded—we just recorded four more. I think we’re up to now eight or ten, and we are doing about four or five a month.
Meg
So nice having that library, because it is beyond the page. There’s so much context to owning a business. There’s a lot of context to owning a franchise, and theoretically it should be easier, but still—it’s a business in a community and there are always going to be variables that come out of left field and you never saw that coming.
So I applaud you for getting that out. I’ve listened to a few already and I like the fact that some of them are short and crisp and direct and concise. It’s a great deliverable.
So for anyone who’s listening, pull up—and we’ll try to get it in the show notes too—maybe we can do a link to your podcast. That’s great content that you’re putting out, and necessary.
Rob
Well, thank you.
Nick
Yes, we would love more followers and appreciate it, Meg.
Meg
Yeah, well, so I’m on season seven. I don’t know, you guys might be episode 200, but I’m getting about right there.
Rob
That’s really good, Meg.
Meg
That is a lot of feedback from people who in the beginning said, don’t script it, don’t ask the same questions over and over again, just don’t, let it go, just be a human and interview the other party for interesting points.
So it’s great when you have your own podcast because you know who your listener is and what their FAQs, what their areas of concern are. That’s why you’re addressing the point.
Nick
Yeah, super.
Meg
What else? What else is going on over there?
Nick
New brands.
Meg
Yeah, new brands.
Rob
Yeah. So I mentioned Dog Stop—that’s one of our newer ones that we are launching. One of the things that we have seen—I’m not saying this is all of our brands, but recently we’ve taken a couple brands on that have decent footing already in franchising.
So, like Dog Stop with 40 plus locations. You got a couple others like Monster, I mentioned, you got Health Source with a hundred. So we’re seeing some brands come to us saying, hey, we’d like to be a part of REPM as well in that segment.
But like I mentioned right before we jumped on, we just came off on a welcome call of new brands. Can’t divulge the name yet, but we try to find different twists to concepts that have already been done and that kind of creates a new fresh take on things.
And so I’ll say it involves infrared, it involves an ancient old way of working out, and it’s been around for a long time—the Pilates method. So it’ll be a cool one, but we’ll wait to tease that one a little bit later.
Meg
Well, you were telling me a little bit about it before we started recording. I would like to make sure that you get one up here.
Actually, now that I’ve moved more or less out of the Chicago area and up to Wisconsin full time, I’m in the middle. If I look out here, I’ve got 230 acres of prairie property. It’s one of our businesses.
Because we’re way out in the middle of nowhere, I couldn’t get to a Pilates studio, so I bought a reformer. I’ve got everything I need at home. And I have been—actually, I’ve been a long-time studier of the method.
My instructor moved to Washington and this is before Covid, so I hadn’t seen her in about 10 years. This is totally down a rabbit hole. But around my birthday in March, her husband wished me happy birthday via LinkedIn.
And I reached back out and said, oh, how is Diana? She jumped into the conversation and said, hey, if you want to work out, we can do so virtually.
So I now have my—she used to train Olympic athletes out in Colorado once a year, she would go for about a month. So I’ve got one of the best of the best, and you’re learning all about this now that you’ve got the brand. So stay true, stay true to the method. That’s all I would ask.
Nick
Yeah, that’s the most important part.
Rob
Yeah, it’s a fun one though. So we’re excited about that.
Meg
Good. Is there anything else that you guys want to talk about? I wanted to make sure that we brought in the podcast. You’re writing anything? You doing anything else that’s putting material out there? I think you’re doing just such a phenomenal job with REPM and how you built this business.
Nick
Yeah, I think I’ll just end with this. I think we try to do a combination of what is necessary in today’s world to get the REPM Group out there and our brands, which is a combination of a lot of virtual things, but we’re firm believers in—Rob alluded to it earlier—about travel.
We go to so many conferences per year, and a big part of that is staying in front of everyone, but also really making sure that we are the true guerrilla marketers.
Going out there in the community and driving what we believe is our story. And making sure as many people can hear it so that we get the results that we want, but do it in a responsible way.
And that’s what we do every day. And it’s a lot of work, but, you know, we said earlier it’s a lot of fun and we enjoy it. So need some recharging of the batteries now and again, but both Rob and I just had some vacations, so we’re ready to go coming into the fall.
Rob
Selfless plug. We’re always looking for new brands, whether they need help opening their units or they are looking to franchise. That’s one of the things that we’re always trying to find, the next best one or help others get to where they need to get to, which is opening doors, ringing cash registers.
Meg
Yeah. And doing it the right way with integrity and responsibility, and those are some of the fundamentals that attract me to you guys and your brands.
I’m glad that you were able to take vacation and get a little time away. It’s way more fun than working for somebody else, isn’t it?
Rob
100%, it is. Yeah.
Meg
It’s kind of a pain sometimes, being the one where the buck stops all the time. My husband and I talk about The Hard Thing About Hard Things. You don’t have to read the book. The hard thing about hard things is somebody’s got to fricking do it.
Nick
Yeah.
Rob
Well, there’s no elevator. You have to take the steps.
Meg
I wish there were shortcuts, but, you know, I think as you build out a really good team and you build out a really good business, you can feel confident in taking time off because you know you have that support behind you and you’ve built it.
Rob
And so, you know, part of our evolution was, can we take a European vacation and will things keep humming? And the answer is yes. So I’m happy to report that.
But I think you have to always be working on it, and that doesn’t mean we really ever stop. I think Nick and I will always pick up the phone late at night or on the weekends, and that’s probably just kind of that culture that we love.
Meg
Yeah. Accessibility. Well, you guys are doing a great job. I love what I tasted with The Milkshake Factory. I love the experiences.
I’m sure that you revel in that as you’re bringing brands on, going out and testing the product to make sure that the customer experience, consumer experience is going to be a great one.
So kudos to you and thank you for finally saying yes and being available, both of you, to come on the show today.
Rob
Thank you. And we really appreciate all the stuff that you’ve done with us throughout the years of growing it. So it’s been great to have you as a friend.
Meg
Thank you.
Nick
Yeah. Thank you, Meg, so much. Really appreciate the time.
Meg
See you soon.
Rob
See you soon.
Nick
All right, thanks.
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